[Irish]

Originally Posted by Hi_Ho_Sliver

I go out of my way to not copy any one elses work unless its just a fun pattern the artist intended to be used..like your cross and rose )

What you are talking about in your example, Hi_Ho, is called "End Use" meaning that items have certain purposes and it is presumed that the purchaser of the item has the right to use the item for that purpose. When you purchase a carving pattern or obtain one that is given away for free you have the right to use that pattern for carving. The use of the pattern to create the finished carving is the 'assumed useage'.

Now ... just because you purchase a pattern does not give you the right to resell or redistribute that pattern. That is where the copyright comes into play. In reality you don't buy a pattern, you buy the right to use the pattern.

So, in the example of the rough-out that was given ... the original carver owns the copyright, the company reproducing that carving as a rough out owns the derivitive that is liscensed by the original carver. If you purchase the rough out you own the wood and you have the right to carve it anyway you want to. If you create a carving that is defineably different from the original art work ... a fireman instead of a cowboy ... you probably can have that new, original carving copyrighted.

And, no, there is little that can be done about China at this time. However, if you walked into WalMart and saw your work being sold with a Made in China stamp on it you probably could sue WalMart if they did not remove the item from sale ... because WalMart is selling within the US and therefore under US Laws and once notified would by US Law be in possession of Illegal Goods.

Susan

[Plain_Ol_Ed]

I'd say that Fingers ought to be thrilled to death, he got at least $150 worth of free legal advise.


Seriously; having published a couple pieces of software and a few magazine articles, I appreciate that the copyright law is there. Just by being there, it deters people from stealing your work. I may not alway understand or agree with it, but sure do appreciate it.

[decoycarve]

Ya know what? Im going to carve what I want, sell it to whom ever wants to buy it and if I get locked up please send me some soap and plastic knives so I can keep CARVING.

[Ashbys]

I agree Susan,

But being the person I am, and understanding that most large corps operate on a single driving force, "Greed" from profit. I think , the line would be more to this effect. Walmart , would produce a legal bill of sale, and then wait for burden of proof to fall back upon the artist. Who would have to prove that it was indeed a copyright violation. Then once proven Walmart would declare they purchased in good faith, and would as such then remove the remaining stock off the shelves. And in a show of good faith they would say they would never again purchase from the supplier. Of course this would wash their hands of the affair and for compensation the copyright holder would then have to file in the world court, against the producing company. Which would fall back to a company supported by a goverment that doesn't recongize copyrights of other countries.

Of couse this is just my opinion.
Ash

[Ashbys]

Goody ,
You wouldn't look good , with Bubba as a roomate . !

Ash

[Ron D]

wood that be soap.....on a rope

[Irish]

Originally Posted by decoycarve

Ya know what? Im going to carve what I want, sell it to whom ever wants to buy it and if I get locked up please send me some soap and plastic knives so I can keep CARVING.

Goody, When I bake you and Bubba my Grandmother Mildred's secret Bench Knife and Ske Chisel Cake do you want chocolate, vanilla, lemon, or carmel icing???

Susan

[kaiserb]

Originally Posted by Irish

...If you purchase the rough out you own the wood and you have the right to carve it anyway you want to. If you create a carving that is definably different from the original art work ... a fireman instead of a cowboy ... you probably can have that new, original carving copyrighted.

Susan

Actually you can only carve a derivative with the permission of the original copyright holder, which may or may not be extended with the purchase from a rough out company. In creating a derivative (provided it is authorized) you only own copyright on the derivations not the entire figure.

For example:

Person "A" designs and creates a cute cuddly frog pattern (The Pattern) has implied copyright protection
A Magazine, or Book Publisher Prints the pattern (with permission of Person "A")
Rough Out Company makes a rough out of The Pattern (with permission or person "A")



Person "B" buys a rough out of The Pattern from the Rough Out Company.

Person “B:� carves a chicken from the Frog Pattern Rough Out.



When Person “B� bought the rough out it, the implied intent of the transaction is to carving the “Cute Cuddly Frog�, for the purpose of personal use. Person “B� can claim ignorance, or claim that was not their intended purpose however a court of law will see it differently.



Person “B� was not authorized to modify the purpose of the rough out.

Person “B� can not copyright the chicken carving, or derivations therein.



Person “B� could seek authorization from Person “A� however it may or may not be granted and furthermore can ONLY be granted by Person “A�. It does not matter that the pattern was a rough out, or a published pattern. There is NO extension of copyrights to others in either of these acts.

[Kenny_S]

Understand the copyright laws kaserb, My opinion of them hasn't changesd and my posting was my way of trying to eliminate the the continued postings on it as it is a tiring subject that Takes the fun out of carving. I am not one that scares easily with these types of laws. Again, this subject keeps hanging around and around like whose is to blame for Hurricane Katrina damage and sftermath.

I will not post on this subject again. I will carve what I want, when I want and sell it, burn it, give it away. That is my story and I am sticking to it.
All that said, have a nice and safe weekend and the best to all of you. My posts were never meant to offend anyone nor changed their opinion,

[kaiserb]

Kenny S

You are welcome to your opionion however when it is stated in a public forum like this it can lead others to believe there is no reason to worry about the copyright laws. And if you are having fun carving the copyright law is irrelivant.

There are many good people each year that get burned by a company sending them a cease and desist order followed by a monetary damages suit. Costing them time and money, loss of revenue etc.

This "having fun" logic could be applied to other cases and the absurdity of it is quite obvious: One could say (using this logic), I have a great time committing armed robery, because I am just having fun, the law does not apply.

We all know right from wrong, and most everyone has a moral compass. We should try to always do what is right and stay within the law.

This topic does become tiring as it seems to appear about once every 3 months. I believe one of the reasons this does show up over and over is people are greatly confused regarding copyrights.

I have become tired of trying to explain the law and overide the continious noise of opinion all but directing people to break the law. If you don't agree with the law call your congress man or woman and tell them your opinion. This is how the law is changed. The law is not changed by people ignoring it or breaking it.

I believe if you really look at the right and wrong of it and apply the light of truth to it you will be able to discern the right answer.