[FINGERS]

While carving at a craft show, I was asked by a customer if I had permission from the sports orginization to duplicate their team logo. I was carving sport shirts (shirt w/collar). I burn in a logo (f/b) paint the logo then stain/paint or seal. These are chain pulls. I don't consider these duplicates because there's no team name & colors are not "true". Then he picked up a golf ball that I had carved a light house in, asked if I had permission from (T****) company to modify their balls.

Turns out the dude is an attorney. Has anyone had this experieance ?

[Irish]

Fingers, There are indeed issues with altering a trademark or copyrighted item then reselling that item. Recently the Zippo Lighter company took quite a few lazer engravers to court because they were engraving scenes and designs of one of the smooth Zippos then reselling those engraved lighters. Zippo earns quite a bit of money through the sales of embossed and limited edition designer lighters so these lazer engravers were damaging their business.

Usually, if you are altering a product for personnal use, not resale, there are few or no issues but once you cross over into marketing that altered item you may have violated their trademark and copyright.

If taken to court for copyright issues all a lawyer has to do is show your design and the copyrighted design to a jury. If the jury believes in any way that you made your design from theirs you lose! It does not need any "malise" as I am going to copy their logo and make a milion dollars! It doesn't matter that you haven't added the name or that your blue doesn't match their blue ... what matters is that the jury can see your came from theirs. And if you in any way imply to a customer or in writing that this is a "Denver's Broncos" design then the lawyer has total proof.

The chances of you being sued are probably small but that doesn't mean there are no risks for you. I would write or call the golf ball company ... they probably would be delighted to grant you written permission and might even want to buy a few themselves. Most companies are very accomodating if you simply talk to them.

Susan

One more quick thought ... Using even one small part of a copyrighted design is a copyright violation. You don't have to have done/used everything. Example, if you make a copy of the old time Coke-a-Cola Santa, leave off the coke label and maybe only do his face without his body in the chair ... you are in copyright violation of that image which is owned by Coke-a-Cola.

[decoycarve]

I do a Biker Santa. I had a resembalence of Harleys bar and shield as the belt buckle. A freind of mine works at the York Harley Factory and took one of the Santas in to show his boss. I got a letter from Harley stating I was in violation of thier copyright. Luckily since my friend took this in they were not harsh with me. I talked to thier attornys and they said they were going to grant me Artist Status. I can do a one off piece if a customer requests me to it for them. I cannot have a piece displayed in my store or have any as stock. Anna cannot paint anything with the any of the copyrighted Harley emblems and have it in our store even though the Harley dealership in our area sends customers to us if someone needs something CUSTOM painted on something.
Goody

[Irish]

I'm pitching in two more cents! As an artist whether a fine artist or wood carving artist, the only thing you own is the copyright !!!!!!!!!!!!

You do a carving and sell that carving. Without your copyright that means who ever buys it has the right to make as many copies of your work and your ideas and sell them. Without copyright they would have the right to take your carving add to it whatever ... I am thinking here of Goodies Santa Biker and a particular finger gesture ... and say it belongs to them.

Hi_Ho do you ever want to see one of your works in someone else's book, magazine, pattern designs, website, or even in WalMart in plastic? In theend, when everything is done, the tools are put away and the carving is either sold or on the shelf ... the ONLY thing you own is your copyright to it.

I highly recommend that everyone take a little time and learn about how copyright laws protect you, your work and your ideas.

Susan

[Clifford_Parker]

IMO, the sports shirt chain pulls could be a problem but not the golfballs. You are not infringing on the patent or copyright by cutting the ball cover and carving the inside, look at all of the custom printing available for events, monograms, etc that get applied to name brand balls. On the other hand, sports organizations NFL, NBA, NCAA, etc., are VERY touchy about their licensing rights.

[Kenny_S]

I wonder if I will be sued as I bought a cowboy roughout from Rossiters at the Tulsa carving show but it is now a Fireman.
Now who's was it, The artist who carved the original one, Rossiters who had the right to make roughouts and sell them or mine( my money bought it)? I know the answer to that question. It is mine to throw away, burn or carve and give away or sell my expertise in carving it as Rossitters didn't carve that one nor the original carver.

Ahh a fine web we weave.


Y'll have a wonderfull day

[brian bailey]

Corporate Harley-Davidson tried to put the copyright squeeze on a local bike shop here a few years ago that went by the name "The HOG Farm".

Harley claimed that the name "HOG" was their copyright.

After a lot of money spent and legal rangling by the bike shop owner, the court ruled against H-D because the name "The HOG Farm" was being used by the bike shop long before Harley coined the term.

Sometimes the little guy wins.

[Hi_Ho_Sliver]

It really wouldn't matter Susan for a couple of reasons, number one, I have no intention of padding the pockets of some shyster to "protect" my interests..lol, and number two, a copyright has so little authority, not worth messing with...........you are in business, you must take it more serious, good luck,............for me and most others, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery! (don't misunderstand me....I go out of my way to not copy any one elses work unless its just a fun pattern the artist intended to be used..like your cross and rose )

[Ashbys]

The golfball can be an issue only if the name or logo is left on the ball. Here is why, the golf assoc. has specific requirements for the size shape and even the ammount of dimples on a golf ball, this is all public domain, they control many areas which all equipment has to be in specifaction with. Any equipment falling outside of these requirements are considered illegal in the world of golf. The manufacturers only knowledge of their product comes with their name. Which they use to market other products. A few years ago golfballs changed from wrapped centers to solid cores. These are the ones which can be carved.

The problem exist as to what is public domain and what isn't. If you copy the statue David , it's legal if you copy anything without a copyright , it's legal , if you copy something with patent pending , its legal, if you copy something made in 1860, it's legal, providing someone else didn't copy it and copyright it, because it was never copyrighted before , it's legal to copyright it. But I will say this , Susan said you wouldn't walk into walmat and see something you designed sitting on the rack in plastic, well heres the problem with that , if it was made in China well your out of luck. Because China rearly recongizes copyrights. You would have to hope that Walmart would remove them, and chances are they wouldn't.

As far as logo's are concerned well , they are extreamly protected and should be. Some will be in public domain, and the only way to find out is to have them researched. And some companies will pay well for information. But the problem is you do it right, then go into a show wheresomeone else is doing the same thing, and try to compete with someone doing it illegal, and suddenly you 3 dollars higher and the other guy is getting the business.

There is no real protection, and the cost to protect your rights is often more expensive than what it's worth. You do what you can to protect yourself and then hope for the best. Spending 10K to win 2K is not good practice.

Ash

[kaiserb]

Originally Posted by Kenny_S

I wonder if I will be sued as I bought a cowboy roughout from Rossiters at the Tulsa carving show but it is now a Fireman.
Now who's was it, The artist who carved the original one, Rossiters who had the right to make roughouts and sell them or mine( my money bought it)? I know the answer to that question. It is mine to throw away, burn or carve and give away or sell my expertise in carving it as Rossitters didn't carve that one nor the original carver.

US Copyright law: from http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ14.html
COPYRIGHT PROTECTION IN A DERIVATIVE WORK

The copyright in a derivative work covers only the additions, changes, or other new material appearing for the first time in the work. It does not extend to any preexisting material and does not imply a copyright in that material.

One cannot extend the length of protection for a copyrighted work by creating a derivative work. A work that has fallen in the public domain, that is, which is no longer protected by copyright, may be used for a derivative work, but the copyright in the derivative work will not restore the copyright of the public domain material. Neither will it prevent anyone else from using the same public domain work for another derivative work. In any case where a protected work is used unlawfully, that is, without the permission of the owner of copyright, copyright will not be extended to the illegally used part.

WHO MAY PREPARE A DERIVATIVE WORK?

Only the owner of copyright in a work has the right to prepare, or to authorize someone else to create, a new version of that work. The owner is generally the author or someone who has obtained rights from the author. Anyone interested in a work who does not know the owner of copyright may search the records of the Copyright Office. Or, the Office will conduct a search at a fee of $75* per hour. For further information, request Circular 22, “How to Investigate the Copyright Status of a Work.�



One of the examples given:
Sculpture (based on a drawing)


Laymans version of the Derivative definition of US copyright code: from http://www.lawgirl.com/copyright.shtml#derivative



WHAT IS A DERIVATIVE WORK?
A derivative work is a work that is based on, or incorporates, one or more already existing works. Examples of derivative works include multi-media works using preexisting elements, screenplays adapted from books, new musical arrangements, art reproductions or any other work that modifies, is derived from or elaborates upon a preexisting work. To be copyrightable in its own right, a derivative work must contain enough elements of originality to qualify as as new work. Further, a copyright holder in a derivative work will only obtain a copyright interest in his original contribution, not the underlying, preexisting elements.

It is extremely important to note that only the copyright owner of the underlying work, or one who has been granted permission to do so, may prepare derivative works. Unauthorized derivative works violate a copyright holder's exclusive rights under the copyright act.