Copying without attribution

[Paul_Guraedy]

There is an interesting article on the front page of the New York Times relating to discussions we have had on copying other’s works. Here are a few excerpts but the whole article is worth reading.

Basically, it says, “get ready, here they come and there is little to stop them.”

Paul

The New York Times

EDUCATION | August 02, 2010
Plagiarism Lines Blur for Students in Digital Age
By TRIP GABRIEL
College officials suggest that many students simply do not grasp that using words they did not write is a serious academic misdeed.

….many students simply do not grasp that using words they did not write is a serious misdeed.It is a disconnect that is growing in the Internet age as concepts of intellectual property, copyright and originality are under assault in the unbridled exchange of online information, say educators who study plagiarism. Digital technology makes copying and pasting easy, of course. But that is the least of it. The Internet may also be redefining how students — who came of age with music file-sharing, Wikipedia and Web-linking — understand the concept of authorship and the singularity of any text or image.
….“Now we have a whole generation of students who’ve grown up with information that just seems to be hanging out there in cyberspace and doesn’t seem to have an author,” said Teresa Fishman, director of the Center for Academic Integrity at Clemson University. “It’s possible to believe this information is just out there for anyone to take.”

….“This generation has always existed in a world where media and intellectual property don’t have the same gravity,” said Ms. Brookover, who at 31 is older than most undergraduates. “When you’re sitting at your computer, it’s the same machine you’ve downloaded music with, possibly illegally, the same machine you streamed videos for free that showed on HBO last night.”

…. In an interview, she said the idea of an author whose singular effort creates an original work is rooted in Enlightenment ideas of the individual. It is buttressed by the Western concept of intellectual property rights as secured by copyright law. But both traditions are being challenged.
“Our notion of authorship and originality was born, it flourished, and it may be waning,” Ms. Blum said.
She contends that undergraduates are less interested in cultivating a unique and authentic identity — as their 1960s counterparts were — than in trying on many different personas, which the Web enables with social networking.
“If you are not so worried about presenting yourself as absolutely unique, then it’s O.K. if you say other people’s words, it’s O.K. if you say things you don’t believe, it’s O.K. if you write papers you couldn’t care less about because they accomplish the task, which is turning something in and getting a grade,” Ms. Blum said, voicing student attitudes. “And it’s O.K. if you put words out there without getting any credit.”

[Tom-H]

Good article Paul. Coming from an academic background that involved research, writing, and publishing I cannot agree more with the author. Little or no recourse legally, from that area of concern. Public "outing" and "shaming" seem to be effective for the time being.....As far as wood carvers go, the mere suggestion that a carver would be better served if he/she developed their own style instead of copying others sometimes works. Again, thanks for the article tip.

Tom H

[Dull Knife]

Originally Posted by Tom-H

Good article Paul. Coming from an academic background that involved research, writing, and publishing I cannot agree more with the author. Little or no recourse legally, from that area of concern. Public "outing" and "shaming" seem to be effective for the time being.....As far as wood carvers go, the mere suggestion that a carver would be better served if he/she developed their own style instead of copying others sometimes works. Again, thanks for the article tip.

Tom H

I can see the problem for the carver who makes a living from his/her carvings and patterns.

But for the rest of us, I feel that copying is the greatest form of flattery.

[mobjack68]

Once again, Paul, you force us to think....something I really hate doing. It is a very provocative, troublesome problem and as you stated....it is only going to get worse.
I teach a 7th grade computer applications class and I constantly talk to students about copyright, music sharing, downloading pics, plagiarism, etc...etc...
The world of carving is no different and the reminders that you share are welcome indeed.

[John_C]

Ecclesiastes 1:9

What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun.



Paul I am learning from Frank Russell's books power carving animals. I am copying his work. Some of it looks pretty good and some neighbors have suggested putting the pieces in the State fair....? so are you addressing people who blatantly copy and sell as original? Perhaps you could clarify for us novices
Thanks
John

[brent]

Originally Posted by Dull Knife

I can see the problem for the carver who makes a living from his/her carvings and patterns.

But for the rest of us, I feel that copying is the greatest form of flattery.

I agree with that to a point. When some "jack leg" buys one and sends it off to be reproduced at a next to nothing cost and then sold for a huge profit to someone that actually had nothing to do with it. But, we live in a world we helped to create.

[Paul_Guraedy]

John, the most important words in the title, as far as I am concerned, is "without attribution." Certainly, as far as pieces carved from books, DVDs, classes, etc. are concerned, the carver has the designer's persmission, even encouragement, to copy the carvings.. But, credit still should be given to the artist who designed the original.

I change, in so far as possible, the pieces that I carve at seminars. But, I still make every attempt to insure that I give credit to the instructor. If I sell one of these carvings, I explain that I am not charging what I would if the design were my own. I do not enter shows so I will not address that aspect other than to say that I see a lot of stuff, in person and in Chip Chats, that came from an intructor that I know.........and no attribution given.

I hope this helps clarify my concern.

[Tom-H]

I think that when one is learning to carve, there are lots of opportunities to Copy" others work. In many instances this represents the only way for some to begin to get the carving technique down. However, I would draw the line at selling a carving that is "copied". No one has talked much about the other dangers of copying others carvings. It can limit ones own carving and carving growth. How many carvers do you know who start out copying others carvings in order to learn, but then keep on copying after they have some technique under their belt. The next step would be ONLY carving other folks rough outs. You and I both know carvers who have fallen into this trap. I call it a trap, but it's not really a trap, if that's all one want to do. But how much talent becomes buried, simply because a carver doesn't move to the next level and design their own carvings. In other words, do something original. Do something that develops their own "style". It may be very tempting to strive for the comment, "gee! your carving looks just like Lynn D's". But for a lot of us, it's more important to strive to develop ones own style/technique. Just some thoughts. Just my opinion. It's not important. Just have fun carving.....

Tom H

[AlArchie]

Paul, any carving I do from a class or book, I tell anyone who asks where and who the design was from....it's such a simple courtesy to do. I even posted a credit when I wrote one of my "ramblings" on the bottom of the page, even though I only use a couple phrases.

Rambing with the Wind

It really is so easy to do and I think giving credit only enhances our status in the genre, not depletes from it.

Al

[northwood bob]

Very interesting thread with some very interpertred and well thoughout comments. I am in agreement that when one develops beyond the ned to "copy" anothers work learns to develop and design his/her own pieces that the work becomes more gratifying.

I, for one, have "used" anothers ideas (I think we all have) but have modified the design to adapt to our needs. This can be seen in the use of photos, educational books, training materials or classes. Can this be called plagerism or is it meerly the use of information at hand to develop an origional design? It has been said that there are no new words to a song or musical note phrases only the means or methods we put them together. Is this any different than the observation of an oak leaf and using that to develop a carving? How many times have we done this?

Now that I've used my allocation of philosophy for the week, I'll let you guys ponder over this.

Good Carving
Bob