[Steven]

I have made a few canes and I have begun to have some doubts and concerns about safety.

I turn the stick out of Chechen, a dense hardwood from Central America (coloquially known as 'Poison Wood'). The handles I have been carving from Butternut, or Mohogany that are more than one inch in diameter along its curving length. For looks I put what I call a cookie made oreo-style with 1/4 inch thick Ebony on the outsides and 1/2 inch Bloodwood on the inside. The stick, cookie and handle are connected with a 5 inch, quarter-twenty rod and glued with a 2 part, quick drying epoxy.

I have been told some things that I need to have confirmed. Someone has said that 2 part, quick drying epoxy has been known to fail and should not be used. Another person has warned that Butternut and Mohogany are not strong enough to use as handles. And someone else has said that the use of a metal rod might result in cracks in the wood. The wood might swell with seasonal humidity variations whereas the rod will not. This might compromise the structural stability, it is assumed. The glued surfaces of the handle and the cookie are not end-grain, but the stick is end-grain.

I want to make functional art, a cane that someone can use and rely upon, not just store in a spitoon at the end of the hallway. What do you folks think? Can I realize my goals? What changes in technique must I make, or, does everything sound okay the way it is?

[Ky_Whittler]

I am not sure about the strength of butternut but mahogony should do nicely for handles.

One of hte great things about wood is the fact that it is a living breathing warm material even long after the tree is dead and cut.It can swell and shrink with temperature and humidity.The big plus is that once cured and properly sealed against moisture it is fairly stable. Most canes are kept in the home where humidity is just a tiny factor. As long as your putting on a good finish I would'nt worry about that.

In green woodworking the shrinkage of the parts is relied on heavily for the joints of chairs. Windsor chairs were traditionallly built in such a way that the shrinkage was used to tighten the joints with or without glue!!

I have not used the five minute type of epoxy for cane joints so I cannot comment on that. But the only way your rod would cause a problem is if hte wood were too green and not well cured, due to the shrinkage factor, then it would split open along the shaft.

Woods I use here are common to home construction. I have several books which give the diferent strength ratios of diferent woods. How strong they are in diferent ways. What they can stand ,pressure wise ,along the grain of the wood or across the grain of the wood. You need to find something similar that will tell you what the wood your working with can take. I don't have anything here that list's that particular wood. You can use this to tell you which woods are safest to use where and how and will help with designing your canes.

For instance, white oak is very strong when it comes to shear strength, across the grain, and is strong in compression , up and down the shaft. Therefore used as a dowel for attachment at the joint or for the shaft it will withstand a pretty good amount of pressure.

I hope I haven't confused you with all of this. Whittler

[Irish]

Originally Posted by Steven

I have made a few canes and I have begun to have some doubts and concerns about safety.

I want to make functional art, a cane that someone can use and rely upon, not just store in a spitoon at the end of the hallway.

Hi Steven,

In my opinion ... Can you more clearly define exactly what you mean by functional? I think your definition will help to determine how well what you are already doing will hold up to the test of time.

For me there is a difference between functional art and a medical supply cane. Yes, you want the cane shaft, the handle, and the joinery as strong as possible and yes, you want that cane to be able to hold up under normal use and even hard use. But, in my opinion, a hand carved cane that I have made should never be used as a substitute for as medically needed support. If someone needs a cane for to supliment their strenght then they need to obtain one through their doctor or medical therapist.

When Mike and I were selling our canes we marked them as "Not of Medical Use". (See the fine print on the back of the little tag hanging from the cane handle.) We concentrated on the second part of your description ... ART! Lots of people use canes for many different reasons - status - just to showing off - attire accents - and to decorate their living rooms by putting them on display in a cane jar by the front door.

I have never wanted the responsiblity that goes with a medical cane nor ever implied that our canes were anything more than the ART part of your statement ... neither medical canes nor hiking sticks. We carved and sold decorative and functional art for the causal user and collector.

What you are describing sounds as though it will easily hold up to hard use by the casual collector!

Just my opinion, take what you want and throw the rest away!

Susan

[squbrigg]

Steven,

Good discussion and excellent questions. As a cane user, I appreciate the fact that you are taking the time to raise these questions. Thank you.

Folks use canes for different purposes, for a variety of problems and I don't profess to be an expert in their use. Some have to rely on the cane for physical support some just for balance. I use mine for balance. The head injury inpared my internal balance, so without it, I'd walk like a drunken sailor, so it acts like a light support to keep me on track. Those who need a cane for physical support, say a bad ankle or knee, the cane comes under much more stress, as it is taking/supporting the weight of the patient.

As a woodcarver (and lately a cane carver), with my limited knowledge of wood and its strengths, weaknesses and charactistics, I choose my woods carefully. Cherry was my main choice and it has the strength that I need, and has the carving qualities I wanted. The head of the second cane is hard Mahogany (there are three types of Mahogany) and it also offers good strength.

In joining the head to the shaft, I use 3/4" hardwood dowel, the dowel reinforces the structure, where a screw may join them, but also may weaken them by splitting the wood. The dowel is glued using yellow carpenters glue and leaves a structure that I find is solid, and dependable. (Carpenters glue is tough, once set the wood would break before the joint ever would.) So one glued, the whole structure is solid wood, no splits or pressure from a screw to weaken the grain. Grain is also an important consideration for handles, so you need to keep it in mind.

Many woods would work for a functional cane, but they should have a lot of strength. A decorative cane can be made from a wider variety of woods, weaker, softer and attached is a wider variety of methods where strength is secondary. Butternut "could" be used satisfactorally for a decorative cane, but I would be cautious to use one for functional purposes. The fibers tear easily and the wood does tend to crack under stress. The Mahogany would depend on the type of Mahogany, I would be very cautious of using soft Mahogany on a functional cane, hard Mahogany would be much better.

Ash, Maple, Oak, Birch, Beech, , Cherry, Pear, are all good strong local species, and should be suitable for functional canes.

Hope this helps.

Bob

[Hi_Ho_Sliver]

Everyone pretty much said it here! good topic...I carry a cane versus a stick as its easier to get in and out of the car etc and I started carrying one when I dog came after my wife and I and our little dog...I fortunately had a ski pole for a walking stick, however after that, I made a more substantial "thumper"....as for constant use and to support the whole body, I tend to agree with Irish....most of what we do is collector type and just for the occasional "stroll" all this is in my opinion of course! Now every once in awhile my back will act up prior to going to a chiropractor and I need to cane to take a load off my back, but its for me....not sure I would want to sell one to someone else for total support.

[jax]

Irish,

Thanks for the "heads-up" on the use of ...medical and art types of canes; also the use of tagging the cane handle..."Not for Medical Use".

Jax

[Clifford_Parker]

It looks like you are getting some good input Steven.

As far as using butternut, I have an entire cane of butternut and though I only use a cane for assisting my balance and protecting a bum knee there are times that I lean pretty heavily on it. I am a BIG (6' 300#) man and it holds me up without problems. The key to making "softer" woods work for handles is to make sure that the user's weight rests on the shaft of the cane and not on one end or another of the handle. I achieve this by making/using T handles for most of my canes.

I prefer to use a mortice and tenon joint for canes with seperate handle and shaft. I feel that this gives a better, stronger, and more durable joint. (Show me a piece of QUALITY furniture that uses dowels or steel all-thread in the joints and I might change my mind.)

I also use the slower curing epoxy as fast curing glues/epoxies tend to be more brittle and might increase the chance of a failure.

I also agree that any cane or stick sold should be marked "NOT FOR Orthopedic Use" or "For Decorative Use Only" to avoid liability issues.

[Steven]

Thanks for the kindness of your replies. Your suggestions and insights are very helpfull. When I figure out how to work this computer thing a little better maybe I can add a picture of a cane, or, two. Can we add attachments of that nature to these "threads"?

What drove me to ask about this was a request from a friend to carve a cane for a friend of his who had recently lost his left leg and his right foot in a car accident. My friend had seen the work I have done and thought it would be a nice gift. I believe the gentleman in question might have to take years to learn how to walk well, and then only with the use of specialized equipment that I am not qualified to make. Even if I mark the piece as, "Not for Medical Use", I would hate for the cane to fail and cause the gentleman additional pain and anguish. I am going to have to turn down the request in this case.

Thank you for your guidance, folks!

Steven

[Lightningbolt]

Originally Posted by Clifford_Parker

I prefer to use a mortice and tenon joint for canes with seperate handle and shaft. I feel that this gives a better, stronger, and more durable joint. (Show me a piece of QUALITY furniture that uses dowels or steel all-thread in the joints and I might change my mind.)

Thanks Clifford! And yet another good idea that I now need to explore. About two years ago I bought a set of Veritas Tenon Cutters which have greatly increased the speed and quality of making rustic furniture, another favorite hobby of mine. A direct link to them is http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...,42288&p=42299 for those who need more information.

I can't think of a reason why these tenon cutters wouldn't also make an enormously strong joint for a cane. The cutters fit into my high torque drill and they all have a built-in leveling bubble so I'd have to make sure everything is lined up good but I believe there are great possibilities here!

Thanks for the idea and I'll report back on how it worked out.

Steven: I for one would love to see your canes. You might want to refer to the sticky posting in "General Carving" entitled, "I feel really stupid" which should help you get those attachments coming. And thanks for engaging our brains for some good ideas!

[papasar]

Morning,
I have been using a cane for the past month or so due to a back condition. I began using it totally for support but its now used for balance until I get my confidence back. The cane is dogwood with a tee handle attached with a dowel end like lightningbolt's rustic furniture. It is @ 1 in thick with the bark still on. The carving is in the shaft only and is of a great woodspirit with a long beard going at least 14 inches down the shaft. I understand the liability part, but be assured, this cane is strong. I guess I have the best of both worlds, a work of art that is also very functional. I did not carve it but bought in Lancaster PA a number of yrs ago at a Knife Shop. Maybe some member of this board carved it! It was the one thing that got me to try carving. I'll try to post a pcture and maybe someone will recognize it.
Bill K.