Art vs craft

[jartzh]

I do both. Sometimes I start out to do a craft (decoy) and sometimes art(bird sitting on the ground) . I know the difference but I don't know if anybody seeing both pieces would. Common?

I am kind of thinking that an entire contained figure or scene is craft and if its only a partial view then its art.

Thoughts?

[doris]

so you would say the first pieta of michelangelo is craft, or his david (is like a decoy ;-)) ... oh well well, well.... excuse if this sounds harsh, but i think this formula you give is way too short. there might be some examples supporting it, but generally i would say art is not defined by such crude formula. i am no bird carver, even not know birds very well, but i have seen bird carvings which speak, and these were whole bird, so entire figure as you put, and to me these were art, since they speak, tell me someting the carver wanted the viewer to know/or learn/or feel. i have no knowlede to judge if these birds were accurately carved, but they had life in them... i have also seen many partial views, which were just made partial for abstract nonsense ideas, like cut face in odd shape half, and were plain dead... not mean to offend anyone, but to me, art is no easy formula (and sometimes i think, it might be something different to each person on this planet).... one way i can agree, is that art fires your imagination, may it be entire figure or partial view no matters,,,,craft only is able to amaze you about craftmanship, in carving maybe it would be how clean the cuts are, and how accurate the carved lines, how many detail is put in, etc, but it not stirs further thoughts, feelings, or pain ...

[Paul_Guraedy]

Originally Posted by doris

....but to me, art is no easy formula (and sometimes i think, it might be something different to each person on this planet).... one way i can agree, is that art fires your imagination, may it be entire figure or partial view no matters,,,,craft only is able to amaze you about craftmanship....

I could not agree more with Doris' definition of art and craft.

[Dylan]

Art is in the eye of the beholder.

And I'm with Paul and Doris on this one.

Dylan

[gene-messer]

I dont usually get in on these type of discussions ... But this has been a argument for years with artist and art galleries alike ..

I myself am a whittler who simply sits down and whittle's out small figures without any concern for great artistic value or merit .. So in reality .. I consider myself a somewhat craftsman of little means ..

But how in the world can anyone look at some of the beautiful work that is displayed on this forum and say to themselves .. This is only a craft ...

That is beyond me .. These people are artist and some of them are master's at it as well ...

How can anyone look at Mark Y . or Fred Z's work and not think Art !

Susie's and Mark's Santa's and not say this is art ...

Don Mertz little people and not think it ...

Lynn and Arnolds caricatures and not think it ...

And those are just a few to the many artist on this forum ... There are so many more that I know of but wont run it in the ground ..

How anyone can think this is not art just because it's wood and not paint blows me away ..

Wood carving is to me a art into itself and I am so honored to be a part of a forum that has so many great artist I can observe and enjoy ..

As my old dad use to say .. Art is not in the eye's of the beholder .. It's in the mind of the artist himself for the enjoyment of us all ..

Didnt mean to rant ..

Gene

[tnartist05]

Originally Posted by gene messer

I dont usually get in on these type of discussions ... But this has been a argument for years with artist and art galleries alike ..

I myself am a whittler who simply sits down and whittle's out small figures without any concern for great artistic value or merit .. So in reality .. I consider myself a somewhat craftsman of little means ..

But how in the world can anyone look at some of the beautiful work that is displayed on this forum and say to themselves .. This is only a craft ...

That is beyond me .. These people are artist and some of them are master's at it as well ...

How can anyone look at Mark Y . or Fred Z's work and not think Art !

Susie's and Mark's Santa's and not say this is art ...

Don Mertz little people and not think it ...

Lynn and Arnolds caricatures and not think it ...

And those are just a few to the many artist on this forum ... There are so many more that I know of but wont run it in the ground ..

How anyone can think this is not art just because it's wood and not paint blows me away ..

Wood carving is to me a art into itself and I am so honored to be a part of a forum that has so many great artist I can observe and enjoy ..

As my old dad use to say .. Art is not in the eye's of the beholder .. It's in the mind of the artist himself for the enjoyment of us all ..

Didnt mean to rant ..

Gene

:::AMEN:::: Gene,I more than agree~Tn

[mark yundt]

Well,,,I've seen decoys that are Definitely art,,and many birds ,,even sitting on branches and such,,that are craft,,,caricatures that have been either as well,,, and on and on,,,I'm not going to open that can of worms! Though I do favor what Doris and others have said.
I'm not going to verbalize it,,but I like to think I can see it when it happens..WOW,,such a neat topic,,and so few words out of me,,,I think I have a fever....

[Donald K. Mertz]

The WOOD BEE CARVER will jump in with a "penny's worth of thought" (which means it may not be worth "two cents.") For me, it is not an either/or but a both/and in that one can not have "art" without the "craft" to make the art as well as there is a certain kind of "art" to do the "craft" of carving. Art is in the eye of the beholder as well as being in the heart of the mind and hands of the craftsperson. As Doris said "art is what fires the imagination" and so it is also that "fire" that compels one to want to create. "Craft" is learning and doing the skills, the very action of carving that is more than using cutting tools to shape the wood into a desired object to also include one's creative imagination to want to try to shape a piece of wood into a recognizible subject. "Craft" is "learning by doing" ever growing in one's skill as well as sharpening one's observations to see "art" in the everyday scenes of life. In others words, as we practice the skill of the craft of wood carving, we "fire the imagination" of the artist within making the simpliest of carving a piece of art. "Folk Art" is the "art of the common folk" that inner desire to create something of beauty that is within one's heart or the "fire of the imagination" that wants to imulate and imitate what is perceived as "artistic" or considered "fine art" by those who have "art appreciation." A part of the "craft and skill development" stage of carving is to observe the qualities that are associated with "art" -- movement, proportions, form, shape,color, all those things one can learn by studying ''art" that "captures" one's interest. I often say, "Woodcarving is more the journey than the destination," meaning that the "art" of carving is in the doing rather than the end result. So in the end, "art" is in the heart and eye of the beholder while participating in the creative process, which is an "art" in itself. Is it not true that when we carve, we are carving for ourselves, first of all, to fulfill that "fire within" to create (that's the "art" in process) and secondly, the finished carving can become "art" in the eye of the beholder who views our carvings. Well, I'm at the end of my "penny's worth" Thanks for listening.

[Mitchell]

Don - that's 'bout a dollars worth.......

Thanks.

[chuckt]

Wow - Mark - practically speechless on THIS topic? I am in shock! <grin>

I have to agree with Donald on this one - it is in my mind a both and, not an either or. Craft - is the skill necessary to bring Art to life, but Art is the ability visualize and give form to that which "moves" us or "fires the imagination" as Doris so elequently said. Art - takes materials that may be ordinary, adds some level of craft in manipulating it or altering its context to achieve something extra-ordinary in the mind and heart of the beholder.

Deep! ;-)

ChuckT