An appeal for advice.

[squbrigg]

Wow.....thank you folks for all the encouraging advice. This whole process should prove interesting. I spent part of the day working up a concept drawing of the idea and have to cost it out now. That's the hard part.....! Five months is a pretty tight schedule for one of my ships.....darn tight......so I'm not doing it for nothing!

They want something that their customers and their children will admire for years to come, and I wouldn't put my name on something I'm not proud of or that my children or grandchildren wouldn't be proud of.......it will be my legacy too. I don't need the work......I get my days in just fine with all the neat/fun things I've been doing.......there'll be no time for canes for a while, if I take this on! Smile

I appreciate all the suggestions folks, seriously. I just hope I make the right choices.

Bob

Bob,

CONGRADULATIONS !

My two cents worth from a "business" perspective......

1) You need to know their budgeted amount that they have planned for this piece, ths amount or price range, will tell you first if its worth your time, and secondly, that they can afford or are willing to pay for your time & work. To low, say goodbye, if high enough, then you have better direction of what you can work into their time line.

2) Once "amount" is satisfied, then by all means get a payment outline agreed to such as: a % upfront, a % at halfway point, balance upon delivery.

Goodluck, Coffeeman

[wade clark]

Coffeeman, Good point! Bob, I don't even think it would be inappropriate to ask up front what their budget is for the art, letting them know you will plan the piece to match their budget. That sounds to me like a very upfront approach and shouldn't offend them. Then you can submit a plan. If they want larger and more detail, they know up front it's going to cost them more. If they've seen your work, they want you. The only consideration is how much of you they want to pay for!
Avoid the trap of just doing a little more if they think of changes along the way, without charging. Have a clear written agreement with drawings and all necessary signatures before you begin... I'm sure you already know that. I did stone masonry for many years and learned that the hard way, started off too polite, with everything to learn about business, and education is never cheap!
Wade

[Hugh]

Bob, the advice about the companies budgett is primary. Simply ask them what they are expecting to spend for this project. The company will reap the benifits of having one of your beautiful ships displayed. If they didn't think so, they wouldn't have asked. They are excited to get your work. Your ships are fantastic. Don't sell yourself short. Good luck.

[Irish]

Bob,

I have a copy of a Commission Artwork Agreement that I can send you if you would like. It covers preliminary sketches and work, payment schedules, copyright issues, delivery costs, illness of the artist, unexpected changers by the Purchaser, completion or lack there of for the Work, insurance costs, heirs and assigns, display, modifications, ..... and time schedules.

It's a 3 to 3 1/2 page document. I am offering it, if you even want it, as something to guide you in your considerations with your commission and not meant in any way to be used without legal advise from your attorney.

But it is a great guide because it covers so many things right up front that I, personnally, would never have considered in accepting a commission.

Drop me a PM if you want a .txt copy.

Susan

[Irish]

Bob,

A couple of quick notes about that agrrement.

1. Note the section on the purchaser having the right to inspection the work as it is done and note the written or advanced notice. On rare occassion you will find that the person that has commissioned the work starts to 'stop by' to see how things are going. Pretty soon they are stopping by often and staying all afternoon driving you crazy and wanting to talk. Then when you start to fall behind they scream at you! It doesn't happen often but when it does it will just drive you crazy.

2. Note the one about delivery and installation. You want it clear, in advance, who is going to pay to have it delivered. How it is going to be shipped, and who and how it is going to be installed. You don't want to find out after the work is done and payment made that they have now decided that you foot the bill for the shipping out of your pocket. You also may want to ask to be consulted about how it is going to be mounted and installed. That way you are protected if the installation technique causes the work to warp or be damaged.

3. Notice the one about Copyright .... never, never, never sign your copyright away. That is the only tangible, legal thing that an artist ownes.

4. You can add to a contract that your name as the artist always be included whenever they use the work as a promotional image. Meaning ... if this carving becomes the center piece photo of an article or brochure it carries a note that is an original work by squbrigg_Bob.

5. In lew of some payment or cost to the commissioning Purchaser you can use promotions and advertising as payment. Meaning that they do some advertising through the local newspapers or magazines that include a focus on you, your commissioned work, and how to contact you. Sometimes this one is even better than money. This is great if you are looking for more work and you know that you are going just over their budget.

6. Note the one about modifications. If they decide half way through the commission that they suddenly need it 2' longer or 2' shorter you are into a whole new contract area. So by including the modification clause they must come back and re-neogiatie. Also you don't want some yahoo ten years down the road deciding that they are going to put a new wall in that will cut your carving in half so they are going to go get a chain saw and do it themselves. They may need to put in that wall but with this clause at least you get to be there when they get out the chain saw.

7. Note the heirs and assigns. You can, since this carving may be one of just a very few, include a clause that says if for any reason (bankrupcy) the company or corp. needs to sell the carving that you or your heirs have first rights to purchase it ... that gets it back into the family.

I know that doc is long, but if everything you can think of is talked out then written out in advance the work goes sooooo much smoother and easier.

Susan

[squbrigg]

An up-date, for those interested.

After much soul searching and some excellent advice from my wife over the week-end, I contacted the the manager and politely declined their offer.

My wife reminded me of several things, most importantly, some things about myself. I am not physically up to working in that tight a time line, my condition just isn't reliable enough. I also tend to become "over-enthustiac" about projects that I enjoy doing and don't know/forget when to rest, therefore ending up worse off than I began, and weaker, therefore less productive. Had I sufficient time, I could do a great job on something like this, but a ship alone usually takes me a year or more, and trying to do a ship , plus a scene in 4 - 5 months, is just pushing it too much. I am also committed to the display at the wharf for the summer, and she reminded me that when I return from even a couple of hours there, I'm wasted for the day. Trying to work on a project there is possible, but with the activity, questions and visitors, not productive.

I appreciate all the advice that you most kindly offered, and I was/am very honoured by the invitation and all of your confidance in me, but there are times you must step back and ask yourself , " Is it worth it?". The money would certainly come in handy, but other things are more important.

I gave the gentleman a couple of names, of a gallery and a broker of ship models, so they is not without recourse.

Besides, I'd never have time to carve any more canes!

Thank you for your help folks, I really appreciate it.

Bob

[Just Carving]

Bob,

I am sorry to hear that you won't be able to display your fine work. But I am sure the wharf display will be all the better now that you'll have more time to devote to it. It is a shame that our physical abilities can get the best of us sometimes. But I have to say I was inspired by you're looking at the glass as half full by seeing you'll have more time for carving canes. Bravo!

You have an excellent outlook on things, a good wife who looks out for you, and great skills in carving and shipbuilding! You're a lucky man! And I am lucky for having the opportunity to read the words and see the work of fine people like yourself!

Bob

[jamesfa]

Bob-its to bad you had to decline the offer,and the chance to display your work.but in the end we all tend to get enthustiac about some project and our wives luckily bring us back to reality, and remind us we're not 20 years old anymore.

you are right that this project would have stopped the carvings of ships or canes ,or celtic knots(projects that catch your fancy and are fun to do at your own pace.

Bob i might have mentioned on an other thread that i volunteered to help seniors with "handyman" type of work for those that cannot afford,or are unable to get things done by tradesmen because the job is to small,it has now take on a life of its own and there are more and more requests.so much so that i have not had anytime for carving and i have several projects in the idea stage or roughout stage that i cannot get too.because they would require much thought and time.

bob i think in the long run you would be much happier at your summer work shop smelling the sea breezes and chatting with the tourists who drop by.


Frank

[Hugh]

Good decision Bob, a quote from Scripture, Proverbs 31: 10-12. Who can find a virtuous wife? For her worth is far above rubies.
The heart of her husband safely trusts her, So he will have no lack of gain. She does him good and not evil. All the days of her life.