Another fish question

[sawdust]

I am having trouble cutting the round bottom of the maxillary on the top of a trout mouth I am working on. I have tried cutting it with a dremel and with an exacto knife and in both cases I end up with something that isn't nicely shaped and round like I want it. Can someone give me some pointers on how best to do this?

I get it drawn on to the wood perfectly and I can cut out the straight portions, it is just the tight round turn at the bottom of the maxillary where I have trouble. How do you get a smooth cut on a tight round corner?

Thank you!

SD

[AlArchie]

Carefully, Sawdust! Like I said, I don't do this with the rotaries but use knife, rifflers and sanding sticks for finishing up those tight little areas.

When using a knife (xacto or otherwise), you'll have to read the grain to get a smooth tight curve. Working on that maxillary, you will probably be running into cross grain, right where you need that tight turn, so come at it from both sides, making sure you are not cutting "into" the fibers. Think of it as whittling a point on a stick. You whittle both sides toward the end, and wouldn't think of whittling from the point TOWARD the stick. Same with working the grain when carving anything else. Hope this doesn't sound too simplistic, but sometimes when carving details we all tend to forget that the wood only allows certain cuts to be done effectively.

Depending on how large your trout is going to be, the actual heigth of the maxillary above the cheek will vary, but probably will never be more than 1/16" or so. Even with that small rise, don't try to make your initial stop cut in one swipe. Try a cut a few thousandths of an inch deep, then relieve that from the cheek. Then take another very shallow stop cut and relieve a bit more. On a 10" tout in figured wood, I may take 10 passes at that maxillary relife.
In aspen or basswood about half that.

Once the relief is cut I take either a 1/4" sanding stick (one with the belt) or a emory board and hand sand the contours, Fine rifflers will do the final cleanup.

Does your Dremel have a flex shaft with a handpiece or are you trying to work with just the Power unit? I find the flex shaft/ handpiece much easier to control, but still don't use it for this type of work. Either way, if you make your passes with the rotary tools extremely light they are much easier to control. And when using a handpiece, try grasping that just as you would a knife when making paring cuts. Hold the unit in your curled fingers, tip toward your thumb. Stabilize your hand by placing your thumb on the work and draw the tool in toward your thumb by simply closing your fingers toward your thumb. And again, only take a few thousandths of an inch off with each pass. I'd guess you were just trying to take too much off too fast.

Hope this helps....

Al

[sawdust]

Thanks again Al,

You are not being "overly simplistic" and I very much appreciate your patience in explaining the process to me. You are right in that I am trying to take off too much at one time. I am using basswood and tried to take that off in two passes maybe. The dremel I am using is just that, a dremel with no flex whatsoever. I will go at it again with an exacto and go very slow next time and see what I can do. I also think that I was trying to make it too tall now that you tell me it should only be a 1/16th of an inch above the cheek. I have studied lots of photos and will keep trying.

Thank you!

[AlArchie]

Sawdust, that 1/16" was only an intial suggestion......if when you get the cuts made, it doesn't seem like enough, you can always make it deeper. But do everything in these final finishing cuts very lightly....we all tend to want to get "there" too fast. It's all in the details...take your time, and might I suggest, the next time you get a few extra sheckles, pick up a flex shaft...you won't regret it!

Oh, and speaking of that xacto......they come sharp, but they are NOT as sharp as they seem. Because the blades are extremely thin, the bevels are cut at a very shallow angle, but look closely at the bevels...they STILL have very find grind marks on them. Try stropping them a few times and you will see a remarkable difference in the smoothness of your cuts!

Al

[sawdust]

Hey Al,

Just wanted to let you know I followed your instructions for the mouth section exactly and it turned out perfectly! Thank you!!!

Now, any suggestions for me on how to do scales? lol.

SD

[AlArchie]

Glad to hear that worked out for you!
OK Sawdust, how big is your carved trout, and is he generic or a specific species? Brook, Brown, Steelhead, Rainbow?

Al

[sawdust]

Al,

I patterned it after a rainbow female and it is small, about 10 inches in length (it is part of a bigger project I am working on). I have a book I bought by Barry and he uses a small dremel ball at one angle and then comes back at another which leaves perfect diamond shaped scales but I am afraid to try this because I finally have the head perfect. Is there a more idiot proof way of getting scales?

thx again!

SD

[AlArchie]

If you have Barry's book, use that same "S" shaped pattern for the scales, spaced abot 1/16" apart. I draw in guide lines about every 1/2" or so. Then follow the guide lines wth a sharp 60 degree V tool, cutting only a "trace" with the V tool. Bear in mind that the "scales" on a small trout are almost non existant. VERY tiny, so don't make those cuts very deep....just enough to give a bit of definition. If you have access to a fine checkering tool, you might try that instead of the V tool.

You should place about 6 scale cuts between the 1/2" guide lines which will give you about the right scale size. If you put the guide lines on both sides before you start, you can match the ends on the back and belly.

Once you have a side done with one set of cuts, do the contrasting "S" curves on that side. It's tedious work, but when done you should have a nice diamond shaped scale pattern. It's going to look a bit harsh, but we'll take care of that once the whole fish is scaled. Even if you were to do this with a rotary, it's still just as tedious,so don't be discouraged. Figure at least 4 to 6 hours to scale that fish!!!!! At least the first time. Don't rush it.

Once you have both sides of the trout scaled, take some very fine sandpaper and lightly go over the whole fish's body to ger rid of any rough edges. After sanding, if the scales seem too vague, you can go over them again with a V shaped riffler to true them up a bit, or "back drag" your V tool along the grooves.

The scales will probably still look a bit too defined, but when you paint them they will blend into the body a bit leaving you with only the hint of scales and a nice patterned effect.

I like to use a sanding sealer on the whole fish after the scaling is complete and I inset all the fins before I paint. Sealer first, followed by a light sanding then a base coat of white, either spray primer or gesso. Either one of these will fill the scaling cuts some and the following color application will fill some too, but all you want is a hint of scales. Some paint the body first then insert the fins and repaint the fins and insertion points.... up to you which will be easier and look better. I use an air brush for most of the painting and only use a brush for some finer details.

Here's a sketch of the simple "S" shaped guide lines I use.

On larger fish I burn the scale pattern in with tips I make myself for the cheapo hobby pens, but you can get scaling tips for most standard pyrography station pens.

One more detail you may have missed.......the lateral line along the body. It's on that sketch I posted but is not quite at the right location...it should be just a bit higher. When carving the body I first draw in the lateral line then make shallow stop cuts on either side so the line is 1/16" WIDE OR EVEN LESS. Do this before scaling...you will scale right over the lateral line, it's just a "shadow feature" Then I relieve these cuts and smooth them into the body so the lateral line is above the body profile about .005" or so. Just a hint. This lateral line is a sensing organ that runs the length of a fish's body about halfway down the side. Check some reference for exact placement as it varies slightly from species to species. It really is not a very noticable feature but adds to the realism if it's there.


Al

[sawdust]

Ok, I understand what you are telling me. I might practice a bit on an extra piece of basswood before attacking what I have so far.

As for time, I think I spent 8 hours each on the first two heads that I ultimately threw in the garbage so another 6 won't be so bad for the scales. I will let you know how things turn out. I have a perfect day to work on it, pouring rain today.

Thanks Al.

SD

[DiamondWillow]

I think on a 10 inch trout you might get the scales a bit to large trying to put them in with a ball and dremel / foredom type of tool. A lot of the fish carvers on that small a trout use a knurled, hope that is spelled right???
Like on a nail set, handle of a racket that type of thing, or grind little scallops around a nail head and kind of roll on the scales. Look for some info from Bob Berry, Clark Schreibeis they all use the knurled type of tools. Practice on a piece of wood first. It really makes for a neat scale detail. Put the pattern in a direction as instructed before. Lots of good info on this thread, keep it up fellows and gals...

Gene