[jillsy]

I've used patterns from Ron Ransom and Shawn Cipa and even if I rework the piece, I know it's still not truly mine. However, when I sit and draw my own designs, it's a totally different story. I may get my ideas from all sorts of things, but my drawings are my own. And when I compare mine with Ron's and Shawn's, there's an obvious difference in style.

Even when I was very little, I never liked "group work" in school. I always wanted my work to be my work. I think that part of me stemmed into carving very quickly. Although I love learning from carving books, I still want my work to be my own, otherwise, I don't feel as fulfilled.

Not sure if any of that made sense, but maybe you can relate to these feelings.

Jillsy

[Ashbys]

I disagree with all of you except Jillsy, and Bob , She said the magic words ,

when I sit and draw my own designs,

That is right on.

When you sit down, draw the pattern from a concept idea, using your own thoughts without aid of someone else's pattern, then and only then have you developed your own design.

A style of carving is only a style not a design. If you use a pattern to make your piece , just because you change that pattern , does not mean you designed it.

If you combine a series of patterns, to make an original concept, then you have designed a new piece and it would be your design. Provided the patterns used are in you legal use.

But simply because you recognize the style of carving does not mean that it is the carvers design. Only that is was carved in their style.

Ash

[spanky1539]

Wow. I was surprised to read so many different oppinions. So heres' mine:
I would only feel comfortable saying that this is "my version" of someones elses design. The reason I feel this way is because if I had not seen the original, I never would have thought up this variation. I have very little drawing skills, but love to carve, so that means I need to see someone elses work to be inspired . Thanks Everybody, you're all great. I read every post. Spanky

[Lynn O. Doughty]

Sorry, have to disagree with you Ash. I don't, as a rule, set down and draw out what I'm going to do. Unless of course you consider drawing onto the wood prior to cutting it out. When I put something together it usually takes form in my head while I do it with the result of sometimes ending up with something thats completely different than what I started with. Also, my style of carving is completely different from others and is, I think anyway, pretty recognizable as being mine. Even though I might give the design to others freely their end result is still completely different from mine.

From the day we're born we learn by copying from others. Maybe Adam drew something in the sand and that I guess would be original. However, I think we can assume that Cain and Abel learned from that experience and it has continued on since then. I'm certainly not ashamed to say that I too have learned from many others and that their work influences mine. However, whatever happens in my feeble little mind that ends up being a carving by me is still mine and mine alone. To me thats originality.

[Ashbys]

Lynn,

In my opinion ,

The fact that you start with your own idea, not someone else'e is part of designing. I often start with a blank block of wood and never draw a line on it. But The concept of what I want without any other persons idea is the start of a design. You do the same thing.

But it is not because your style or the way you carve, it is the basic YOU and YOU alone came up with the concept of the project. The design is the idea of the project and the developing of that concept.

If 6 different carvers are asked to carve a Susan Irish pattern , just because the six carvers are professional, each with their own distinctive style , and they all can be recognized when the work is finished ...

the design is still Susan's. Not the carvers.

There is a difference between style and design. For it to be the carvers design it has to changed at least to something completely new and non-recognizable from the original.

Maybe Cain slew Abel for a copyright infrigement . LOL

Ash

[Lynn O. Doughty]

At the moment I'm doing a carving of Joshua Deets, the character from Lonesome Dove. Now I didn't design that character, he's a creation of Larry McMurtry. However, in interpreting him the carving is designed in such a way that it will clearly be mine even though I used all the characteristics created by someone else. Hopefully, you will be able to look at it and say "That's Joshua Deets, the character from Larry McMurtry's novel Lonesome Dove. Lynn sure did a good job designing or interpreting him in wood in his unique style!"

[Ashbys]

Lynn ,
Sounds like a great carving!

But you just made my point. Your designing a fictional char. based upon a description of that char by an author , who gave you an idea.

So you took an idea, and are developing a carving based upon your mental image of what that person should look like. That is a true original design. Because it is your impression of Deets.

If you were to use the man that played Deets in the movie, then your not doing Deets , your doing a char of the person that played Deets and your impression of that actor. It would still be an original carving, but you moved away from your mental image of the char of Deets to the movie producers impression of Deets. And in that perspective a portrait of the actor, which without his permission is a copyright infringement.

The first is an original design and carving, the second although the carving would be original , the design of the char would not be.

Looking forward to seeing it .

Ash

[Nancy_G]

Originally Posted by Lynn O. Doughty

From the day we're born we learn by copying from others. Maybe Adam drew something in the sand and that I guess would be original. However, I think we can assume that Cain and Abel learned from that experience and it has continued on since then. I'm certainly not ashamed to say that I too have learned from many others and that their work influences mine. However, whatever happens in my feeble little mind that ends up being a carving by me is still mine and mine alone. To me thats originality.

I AGREE
Iv'e said it before (many times)and I'll say it again....everything I know about carving I learned by coping my hero Ron Ranson's books. That's the first time I ever touched a carving knive and I copied ever stroke he took....... then I kept going and I learned from experience.

[jillsy]

Where's Marky-Mark?

He usually loves responding to these types of posts!

[MelNM]

I think if you just keep carving after a while other carvers and collectors start recognizing your work. Carving mostly Santas a I can recognize other folks carving styles. I hate to say it but not being a Caricature Carver I would have a hard time recognizing there work. I can tell Lynn's and just a couple of the others but thats about it.

To me though if you learn someone elses style but carve something original
in that style its your creation.

I carve cotton wood bark also and have read different carving books on the subject and the authors seem to think that the wood dictates what the carving will look like in the end.

Another thing is there is even different ways of painting which will help to differentiate you from other carvers.

But last of all don't worry about it, just enjoy the journey.
Mel