[Big_Al]

I'm both suprised and pleased that this subject has recieved so many replys, and all positive. I told my wife the other day " how many ways can you carve a cowboy or a hobo" Some carver comes up with a man with a rifle looking at a rabbit or a dog or a squirrell ( mine is in the praying position) begging for his life. Imagine how many figures you could come up with using the same blank. Take a look at Pete Ortel's figures, literally dozens all from the same blank.
I start my day out with a blank of some sort, and remove unnecessary wood (blocking out) with any tool I have ( except power) and then sit back with a pencil and a knife and carve away, enjoying the experience. Does it get any better? At 75 - life is good. Big Al

[decoycarve]

Hey Al,
Want a Santa blank. I haven't got to the 25 mark yet on requests for the paulownia balnks I am giving away in the Christmas in july thread in the holiday forum. I am anxious to see how many diferent santas come from this roughout. I can but your name on one if you would like>
Goody

[Shimmy]

It sounds like some people would not be satisfied unless we planted the tree first.

[Kenny_S]

I enjoy carving!

[Hugh]

Shimmey planting the tree might be cheating, you should have a vision, or a revelation of where to find the tree to carve from. LOL. You hit it right on the head. This has been a very good topic. I don't use blanks because I don't have the ability to manage them. It takes ability or talent to carve, regardless of where your inspiration comes from. I will use patterns, make my own, look at others work for inspiration, it is always a challenge. A few people like my carvings, some even buy them. Keep carving everyone, there great, and all are inspirational.

Originally Posted by Shimmy

It sounds like some people would not be satisfied unless we planted the tree first.

[Irish]

OK ... I've been reading this thread and think that I might now jump into the fray!

As a pattern maker/designer it is not a patent that you obtain - it's a copyright. Both 2-dimension and 3-dimension works fall under the fine arts section of the copyright laws. Copyrights are for the life of the artist plus 50 years and can be passed on in your will to your children. Copyrights cover what are called Intellectual Property - thinking put to paper either in the form of words (book manuscript) or art (paintings, drawings, limited edition prints).

Patents usually come into play when you have designed something from other exisiting components or other components plus newly designed components ... Patents can be for up to seventeen years and with the dramatic changes in areas like engineering that's a very very very long time period! My dad had a patent on what we called The Butt Board! It was an ingenious little device that attached to the screen door with a large wooden board that covered the center of the screen door. You could, with your arms fully laden back into the screen door and the door opened. He came up with this idea the day my brother, running out of the house, hit the glass part of the door instead of the handle ... blood everywhere! With the Butt Board in the same situation he would have hit the wooden board and kept right on going.

As a pattern maker I GREATLY appreciate those that give credit. I also greatly appreciate those that are able to take one of my designs and create something different, new, and exciting from it !!!!!!!!! Say that you have one of my deer going over the fence scenes. You add a couple of deer in the background - a small grazing herd. You may move the barn to the other side of the scene. You might want to interchange the jumping deers so that the back one becomes the front one.

Now, you have used my design but you have also put a lot of yourself and your ideas into the NEW pattern. For me, this is just my opinion, so take what you want and leave the rest behind ... This is extremely exciting for me. To have gotten someone "turned on" to the idea of getting in there and making changes, taking the courage to do some different from the pre-set design. It means that a carver has taken one more big step in their art-craft-hobby.

Quite honestly, it's a delight to see a little of my art incorporated into something new! Some artist out there got 'turned on' to pattern work and design. And I really don't need the acknowledgement ... I already know wht was mine and what it theirs.

Is their new pattern copyrightable, NO! The changed pattern is called a Derivitive meaning that it was worked from and includes components from a pre-existing work. If you can look at a new work and see parts of a copyrighted work within that work then the original work holds the copyright not the new work.

But, it is partially theirs because of the work they have done ... taking an idea that happened to be on paper and adding changes of their own. They should and do have the right to be proud of their work too.

Just my thoughts.


Susan

Oh Goody ... sign me up for one! I would love to try my hand at your Santa.

[JimmyB]

I don't get to view the posts very often but thought I'd offer another view. I own a woodcarving/duplication business which creates pre-carved blanks for various wood carving instructors. When I first got involved, I spoke with many carvers across the country, and their number 1 concern was that others were purchasing their blanks and having them duplicated by others. Several said that it is to expensive to hire a lawyer because someone is duplicating $200 worth of blanks. That is why I require a signed release form prior to duplication, hopefully to deter anyone from sending other carvers works and to ensure to the customer that their items will not be duplicated for anyone else. However, I was deceived once after a carver had sent the pattern, along with a signed release and copyright symbols......... and told me on the phone that it was his unique design. About a month later I noticed on the internet the same rough-out without his bondo and extra length and designed/carved by another carver. It was, as Susan mentioned, a derivitive of someone's original. Obviously one cannot know everyone's carvings but as time has gone on you learn the styles of various carvers. I have returned several items (including $1 plastic molded figurines) when they were obviously someone else's design. Most carvers are honest and honor others works.
Blanks help many who do not have access to bandsaws and good basswood. They can be changed, turned upside down, sideways and modified to use as other carvings. It is amazing to see the different things which can be created from the same blank.
I enjoy what I do and hope that it promotes many newcomers to stick around and then start designing and carving their own projects. Trust and quality is very important in this type of business.

[decoycarve]

Originally Posted by JimmyB

I don't get to view the posts very often but thought I'd offer another view. I own a woodcarving/duplication business which creates pre-carved blanks for various wood carving instructors. When I first got involved, I spoke with many carvers across the country, and their number 1 concern was that others were purchasing their blanks and having them duplicated by others. Several said that it is to expensive to hire a lawyer because someone is duplicating $200 worth of blanks. That is why I require a signed release form prior to duplication, hopefully to deter anyone from sending other carvers works and to ensure to the customer that their items will not be duplicated for anyone else. However, I was deceived once after a carver had sent the pattern, along with a signed release and copyright symbols......... and told me on the phone that it was his unique design. About a month later I noticed on the internet the same rough-out without his bondo and extra length and designed/carved by another carver. It was, as Susan mentioned, a derivitive of someone's original. Obviously one cannot know everyone's carvings but as time has gone on you learn the styles of various carvers. I have returned several items (including $1 plastic molded figurines) when they were obviously someone else's design. Most carvers are honest and honor others works.
Blanks help many who do not have access to bandsaws and good basswood. They can be changed, turned upside down, sideways and modified to use as other carvings. It is amazing to see the different things which can be created from the same blank.
I enjoy what I do and hope that it promotes many newcomers to stick around and then start designing and carving their own projects. Trust and quality is very important in this type of business.

Jim,
Keep an eye on the CHristmas in July thread already have some interesting carvings being posted. I have had many of my santa patterns stolen and one guy running a duplicator said he changed one of my patterns so that he could sell the blanks. I don't have the money to go after him but did build my own duplicator. Now I just do my own stuff. It has opened up a whole new way at carving for me. I can now put a santa that would have been too hard to do from scratch in a reasonable amount of time. It allows me to do more complicated originals.
Goody

[Just-me]

I started out teaching my self from taking beginner patterns from a carving book. I used a coping saw to cut out these blanks. I then decided that I needed a band saw to make my own blanks. I do get more satisfaction out of making my own design or taking and and improving on it. I have bought $1 and $2 blanks (Fun low stress beginner projects) at wood shows so I could always have something to use with my Carving Jack at any time, but mostly I would rather have a new tool then to spend money on large blanks. I have seen were a group all took the same blank and though they were all trying to carve the same thing every one was surprisingly different. I also find that making the blank is the easy part. It is taking it to the next step that is difficult. I have several carvings right now that I have the blank roughed out and afraid to go the next step. What dose upsets me is anyone duplicating the complete carving with detail with a duplicating machine.

[Irish]

Goody,

It's Judge Judy Time!

If you have proof as photos of your rough out and his, photos of your finished carving and his advertised finished carving, and proof of the date that you released your Santa and when his came on the market ... you can probably take his into the Civil Department of the District Court of your county. This court system is for suits under $5000 worth of damages and you get to be your own lawyer! The filling costs are minimal and the time
period. at least for my county of Frederick, is usally least than two months to a court date.

With a Civil Judgement against him you can then go after his reputation as a "legitament business person". Legally you can post that you have won a judgement for copyright infringement against him in the magazines; e-zines; with local clubs,shows, and organizations; and especially His Local Newspaper. You can post on the net that you have a judgement against him ... You even get to name names, give dates, and state Court Order Venue Numbers.

You probably will never see any financial compensation for his thievery HOWEVER you can destroy any notions about his reputation, which is everything in a craft community as ours. Who's going to buy or do buisness with someone that has been proven to be a copyright thief??? And as excellent as your Santas are you can stop him from coming back year after year to steal your next carving because they are proven sellers.

Now, at lot of times even a letter of intent is enough to stop copyright infringement. We recently had to use one for our dog art site. It was extremely effective and the person not only contacted us they stopped what they were doing immediately. State exactly what you are going to do, state that you have proof, and state what action you will take once you have that court order. But you have to mean what you say.

Quote: "We are at this time notifying you that we will be turning this matter and all related evidence over to the Civil Department of District Court of Frederick County, Maryland for a legal judgment against you. At the time of District Court Judgment we will be requesting the full amount of the damages, District Court filing fees, and Attorney fees that were incurred by us because you have not responded." End Quote

Now, in my opinion ... watch out gang as Susan has a thought in her head ... one the easiest and best deterents to copyright theift is to have a signature in your carving. I don't mean your name ... which is important and should show on somewhere on the face of the carving. I mean a signature element as maybe a small mouse. With each new Santa that mouse is always included! One year he might be peaking out from under Santa's robe hem, another he might be in Santa's bag, or on his hat, or coming out of his sleeve.

The mouse makes the Santa a Goody Original! No mouse, well then it's either a copy or a pirated version !!!

And advertise ... Always Look for the Goody Mouse!

Obivious Disclaimer: This is not meant as legal advise, it is simply my experiences in such matters. Take what you want, throw the rest away, and talk to your lawyer!

If you do have to go to the Civil Department that also is to your advantage as you then have a Court Order to show others that might steal from you exactly what lengths you are willing to go to protect you and your art.

Susan