[chuckt]

Ken -

I personally liked Mark's initial response and although he was not "censored" in the true sense of the word (i.e. not allowed to post), I can understand his frustration at Lynn's response which seemed to mock Mark's post as "hot air". Now - I say seemed because I don't know if that was Lynn's intent but I think it is not unreasonable to take that interpretation and I have to agree with Mark's assessment that if that was the intent - then it was bad form.

The fact is some folks like to just cut to the chase and see those who are more philosophical or analytical in their approach as long-winded or full of BS. Just different outlooks and it's all good. To each their own. Lynn apologized though so hopefully this is all water under the bridge and we can move on.

My take on the original post? Well I am a novice carver so I can't answer as an expert in this domain. However, my experience of playing guitar for nearly 30 years and looking back to when I first started I imagine to be similar. I remember thinking - "Geez - I wonder when I'll be able to do this as easily and well as . . ." those who had been playing for 10yrs, 20yrs, 30yrs. It takes lot's of experience and that means lot's of practice. Whether its carving or any other skill. The more ya LOVE it, the more you'll DO it, and the more you DO it, the better you'll get, and the better you get, the more you realize how much MORE there is to learn! You can choose to see that as depressing or inspiring. Me? I choose inspiring because I'll never get bored with it.

ChuckT

[Mitchell]

Must have missed something....I thought Lynn's post was not directed to anyone in particular, just for the responses that were to come (even his included?). Let's drop that part of the discussion please.

Mark provided very good advice.

I answered short because I needed time to digest the question.

I consider myself "experienced" because I've been carving about 20 years.....and of a "good" level of expertise. I'm no expert, but am satisfied with what I make out of wood. I get everything out of carving that I want. It's a hobby for me.

With instruction, beginners can be quite proficient in just a few weeks. It'll take a little longer on your own and/or from books. By proficient, I mean others will really like what they are making. Again, I don't think there are many out there that don't think that they can get better as carvers.

Learn the basics - how to make SAFE cuts, keep your tools sharp, etc. Work on knowing what tools do what (and how to talk the lingo - descriptions of tools for example).

If you want to do caricatures, learn a little about anatomy if possible. You don't have to KNOW everything, but be aware of proportions of the face and body. Caricature is about exaggeration, so you don't want to be exact, but it helps to know WHAT to exaggerate.

[Jim OH]

TNcarver,
You possess the two most important things already, a love for carving and the realization that it may take awhile to become experienced. I carved my first piece in 1978 and a couple each year after for the next 15 years as I had another hobby. After beginning to carve as a full time hobby I had the ability to see when a carving looked "right" but often didn't possess the knowledge/skills to get it there. Lessons with some well known caricature carvers helped me a lot to learn techniques that made getting the carving to a point that it was beginning to please me a little easier. I am my own worst critic. As many caricatures as I have carved I still feel I am in a learning stage and strive to improve each piece I complete. Have patience and enjoy the journey I hope that will last you a lifetime!
Jim OH

[btree50]

Mark, please keep sharing your ideas about carving with us. I, along with many others enjoy the way you see the carving world. It makes me think more. Some people need more than hold the chisel this way. Unfortunately too many people who are adept at what they do, think that because they know it, you should too. Keep sharing your knowledge with us please.

Lynn, you to are a wonderful source for the average carver. Your sense of humor is much like my fathers was. Your carvings, which seem to come so easy to you, keep amazing me every time I see them. I look forward to what you have to say also.

Now lets play nice and have fun.

[squbrigg]

TNcarver ...... you have recieved a lot of good advice here, articulated better than I could hope to. What I have learned is, carving is a life's journey, and a journey that everyone takes at their own pace. Some folks are gifted and become excellent carvers early in the journey and others labour to become average carvers all their lives. Much depends on ability, on practice and on instruction or example of others. Motivation, how much you want to carve, is a big part of it.

As to the irritation caused by someone's ego getting in the way;

Mark ... keep responding to questions in the way you do, I enjoy them and always respect them.

Lynn ... you are a gifted carver with a great sense of humor and I admire your work, but ..... with respect, sometimes you can be an narrow minded, opinionated, pain in the butt.

Bob

[Lynn O. Doughty]

Btree50.....It's becoming pretty clear that my original comments on this thread are being taken completely out of the context in which they were meant. They had no one's name on them. Now let's move on!

[Lynn O. Doughty]

Bob.....Narrow minded? Opinionated? A Pain in the Butt? Me? You cut me to the quick! I even changed my Avatar to reflect my feelings about your comments.

[Lightningbolt]

This question takes me back many decades when I was in grammar school. Remember those kid's in 4th, 5th, and 6th grade who were "revered" for their abilty to draw great pictures during art class? Besides producing great pictures they always got special recognition from the teacher and everyone in the class. Even more than producing good art I believe that I wanted that positive recognition just as much!

I noticed that the kid's (usually only one in the class) who produced that great art were the one's who were always drawing. I'm talking all the time. They had the best decorated 3-ring binder notebooks, they doodled during class... they were always drawing on request for everyone and it seemed like the pencil was glued to their hand.

I believe that this early experience taught me that the only way to get better at something was to do it all the time. To get better I know that I have to carve something every single day. That's the reason I wear pant's with cargo pockets so that I can have a small project with me 24/7... Ok, I do take my pant's off for bedtime, but they're only 3 feet away at any given moment My Carvin' Jack (by FlexCut) is also always on my belt loop and I used to get some funny look's in church!

Back in the early 1990's I wanted to stretch my ability to the next level so I became obsessed with learning to carve face's... mainly woodspirit faces. I literally studied the people around me with a laser beam focus (and I continue to do so today). When talking to someone my brain is also absorbing a lot of information about how their nose is shaped, the unique form in their lips, their eyes in relation to their nose, etc. etc... I am truely obsessed with learning and EVERYONE is my teacher.

As for woodspirit walking sticks, I recall having to carve over 30 of them before I was satisfied with trying to sell them. They weren't bad sticks and I loved them but I still needed to improve. I gave them all away and remember jokingly telling the happy recepient that it was only a "B" stick. But the day came when I was finally satisfied and knew that I deserved to be financially compensated. I continue to refine my own unique brand of carving but I never want to feel like I have "arrived". I continue to be obsessed with learning more and being obsessed has a lot to do with it for me.

Looking back to those early experience's in grammar school taught me a lot about how to obsess myself with learning something. Then, I was motivated by all the positive recognition from teacher's and peer's, but today I am doubly rewarded with thousand's of extra dollars in sales and even my career has been centered around teaching kid's to carve and work with wood every day in woodshop class.

So how long did it take me to get what I consider good? All in all I'd have to say that it's been a lifetime experience and that I've always pushed myself from one level to the next... AND I always carve something, no matter how simple, every single day!

[xsailer]

You know guys and gals, I like all of the intelligent comments by all members and I enjoy,although not as much, the smartellic comments made by a few if THEY ARE FEW! But when it drags on and on and on it gets boring. I hate stepping in this "I'm better than you" brawl, but, come on children.....get over it and lets get back to civility if for no other reason.....the majority of readers.

[GeorgiaCarver]

My two cents, I know that I am not good, nor am I as good as most on this forum.... That relieves me of a lot of preasure :>)

Secondly, I learn from every carving. Seems funny but each cut and each shape and curve I make I learn somthing different about the grian, the sharpness of my knife, the type of blade and how it interacts with the wood. I learn about debth or lack of and the illusion it creates within wood.

I love this hobby and I hope I never arrive at the final destination, wherever or whatever that is.

p.s. I am humbled to hear Lynn say that he is only fair.... Wow, my journey will be a long one.

Greg