[Hi_Ho_Sliver]

there is no trick to using sandpaper and it is the cheapest and really the easiest way to bring back an edge, don't go to 150...like wade said, if its that bad of shape send it to Rick....go to a site like "superabrasives" or any of the sandpaper suppliers.."Klingspor" is another, get some 400 grit, 800, 1200 and 2000....start with that. Another thing you need is either a good thick piece of glass or a piece of marble or lexan, most advise putting spray glue on the back of the paper and putting it on the hard surface you choose.....those surfaces are flat and won't distort your blade. keep your blade flat on the paper and lift...repeat LIFT when you get to the end of the stroke, otherwise you will round the edge. if you are getting a secondary bevel like Ash wrote, then you are not keeping your blade flat to the paper and lifting at the end of the stroke....do the same with the strop, I run the blade back edge first stroping away from my edge, at the end, again LIFT the blade straight up, be conscious of this and you will not have a problem rounding. The problem my wife has and a neighbor carver, that I fortunately do very seldom is "flick" the chips with your knife, that will put a ding or a chip in your knife faster that most anything, other than a knot that is lol.... hummm seems like I am forgetting something, if I am, I will edit this.......Dave

[decoycarve]

When you are carving your tool will leave a smooth glass like finish on the wood. The minute you start to see small hair line scratches on the wood it is time to strop. When you start to get tearout when you go against the grain its also time to strop. I have a habit of always stroping a few times just before I start a santa face. I use a cheaper knife called a Murphy knife. It holds a pretty good edge and I can carve a complete santa without stropping.
I carve a lot, so I sharpen a lot, rather wear away a cheaper knife then my more expensive knives.
Goody

[Just Carving]

Dennis,

I too went the same way you're contemplating--scary sharp method. I work from 120 to 2000 grit when making a tool from scratch. I did quite a bit of reading and trial and error. I stuck with the emery paper because I had no success using Arkansas stones. If I hadn't had any luck with the scary sharp method, I would have tried diamond stones next. I'm happy with what I'm using now.

For stroping, I use the strop and compound I received from Rick with the beginner's set. Read the directions that came with the kit on stroping. It has simple but great info.

While carving, I strop as needed--usually when as Goody says the wood begins to tear out and/or the blade appears to "plow" through the wood rather than giving a nice clean cut. Usually if I'm not satisfied with the cut after stroping, or if I see any "white" spots or lines on the edges of the tool, then I need to hone. For that I'll use 1000 to 2000 grit. If I have to, I'll go back to 800 grit and maybe, as far as 400 grit--usually for some serious bevel work or damage to the edge. So far, after I've sharpened the tool for the first time, I haven't had to do that--watch, I probably jinxed myself.

There are three things I've learned by trial and error about sharpening over the last 9 months:

1. PATIENCE--you'll need to be patient--VERY patient. If the edge doesn't come after a bit, put the tool down--use another tool for carving for a while, or come back to sharpening the tool another time. If you become impatient, it's just going to get worse.
2. RITUAL--ALWAYS strop your tools while using them and most importantly, before you put them away. This way, you'll know that they are ready for the next time you go to use them.
3. NO FEAR--This is for when you get brave enough to try making your own knife. Don't be afraid to change the bevel if the one you have now is sharp as can be and isn't cutting it. One to a few degrees can make a big difference. For me, it's trial and error with the angle. I shoot for between 15 and 20 degrees-- or "as flat as I can" which I use as my rule of thumb when holding the knife while using the scary sharp method to sharpen. All else falls, toss it in the drawer of tools for Rick to sharpen, and go buy another! (Or make one!)

As far as the grits of stones and paper, I did some research in comparison of the sharpening methods, and this is what I have written down in my notes:

Diamond stone grits
coarse-240, medium-320, fine-700, extra fine-1200

Arkansas stone grits
Soft-500, Hard white-700, Hard black-900

Emery paper 120, 240, 400, 800, 1000, 2000

So, that's where I'm at right now. Hope this helps and doesn't cause confusion.

[Clifford_Parker]

I use a combination coarse/medium stone for sharpening/whetting, a Hard Arkansas stone for honing, and 1500 grit wet and dry paper glued to a plate of glass for pre-stropping. Frequent stropping will greatly extend the amount of time between the need for honing but will not completely erase the need for it. When the time comes that your knife or tools need sharpening....

Rick's sharpening tutorial is good.
http://littleshavers.com/Sharpening.html
So is Susan's.
http://www.carvingpatterns.com/sharpening.htm
The Scary Sharp System works.
http://www.shavings.net/SCARY.HTM
Steve's Knife Sharpening Site has good information.
http://users.ameritech.net/knives/knives.htm
Knives.com has a good page on stones.
http://www.knives.com/stones.html
John Juranitch is a sharpening wizard IMO. His book is full of knowledge.
http://users.ameritech.net/knives/Juranitch1977Feb.htm
http://www.razoredgesystems.com/
Ev Ellenwood also knows his stuff. I have taken his "mini course" and his video is well spoken of.
http://www.ellenwoodarts.com/main.htm
Some people even like my page (despite the ms paint graphics)
http://cliffordparker.tripod.com/sharpening.html

In the end each carver finds his or her favorite method and, with time and practice, develops a style that works for their style of carving and tool use.

[Irish]

This thread deserves a sticky! This is some of the best information on basic sharpening that I have seen. No, I correct myself, this is the best. The ideas here are clear, well explained, and an easy read ... very nice!

I use ceramic stones over japanese and arkansas'. The later two tend to belly out over time, developing a well where the knives have been repeatedly drawn over the stone. This means that each time you use them a very small point at the center of the knife is not hitting stone and so not getting sharpened. The ceramics are a great flat hard surface that doesn't belly out.

I believe that beginners run into two problems with their first attempts at sharpening, going to low on the grit and changing techniques too qucikly.

You have been given some excellent grit ideas here. The low grits are used to develop the angle or bevel of the tool. Tight angles for soft woods and wider angles for hard woods. The higher grits are used to create the cutting edge. Honing is to polish that cutting edge.

You can never hone too much ... that just isn't possible So you probably hones 15 - 20 times to each resharpening. That's an estimate - I have never counted. But the proportion of honing to sharpening is very high.

When you do need to sharpen, think first ... do you need to correct the bevel or do you need to re-dress the cutting edge. If it's just the cutting edge because you have small dents or dings start your sharpening with the medium high grits. Every time you return to the low grits you are changing the bevel area of the knife and having to start all over again. Low grits remove all of the sharpening stages above them. I probably return to a low grit about 1 out of 6 times that I sharpen.

Low grit = changing the bevel angle
High grit = changing the cutting edge
Honing = polishing the cutting edge

The second "error" is that a newbie will change techniques before they have "conquered" the one that they are trying to learn. Every time you change techniques you are changing the way you lay the tool on the stones or paper, the way you are pulling them, the angles, the media (stone, paper) ... you change everything and therefore are starting all over again. It probably takes up to 20 times to really learn a sharpening technique to the point that it is a natural movement and easy flowing stroke. Many times it seems to me that just as the newbie is getting the swing of it they want to go try something else.

There are some great ideas and info here. Pick one or a combination that makes sense to you. Try it, try it again, and stick with it for at least a month! Give yourself time to learn and own the technique.

Gang ... This is a great thread! Thank you to everyone.

Susan

[decoycarve]

An Old Timer once told me " Stop Carving! Put any projects you are doing down." Take a month and learn how to sharpen your tools." I would work hard on a tool and give it to him to check if it was not right he would hand it back to me. If it was he would carve for a while with it then scrape it across a stone and hand back to me. Quote " evrybody gets lucky once see if you can do it twice in a row".
This time I spent learning to sharpen was probably the turning point of rather I continued to carve or just passed it off as another hobby. I have been carving in some form for 15 years now.
Goody

[AlArchie]

Boy, that was a MEAN way to learn! Effective, but I wonder how many, less determined, or less humored folks simply walked away from THAT lesson! Kinda like the DI that ground his shoe into my spit shined boot then asked what the heck I shined it, with! 'Fraid I couldn't walk away, though.

Al

[Ron D]

my dad was the same way kinda.he made me learn to sharpen before i could carve.but when i had a hard time he would take my hand with the knife in it and guide it across the stone.i learned pretty quick that way.because i wanted to get into the wood bad.but i think people should learn to sharpen the knife before they use it.the old saying you never get cut with a sharp knife its the dull ones that get ya. my 7 year old just got into carving and thats the first thing i taught her was to sharpen.

[Dennis Taylor]

You are correct this post is full of great information, and I have read and re-read each post....I think the hardest part of turning was learning to sharpen, and I think the same will hold true for carving....Although Goody's lesson came hard and long, he learned and will never forget!...I kind of hand the same experience with my turning, so I understand, the back to the grinder and do it again...but I can sharpen now...


Thanks to all the responded, loads of great info!.....Dennis

[Hi_Ho_Sliver]

Decoy is right....knowing how to get a sharp knife and having a really "sharp" knife means the difference of having fun carving or it being a real chore....! I heard someone, somewhere say something to the effect they thought air/oxygen had an effect on steel.......that stuck in my mind and have been watching and find that to be true, every time I pick up a different knife or tool anymore I strop it...I came to that conclusion after "not" stropping them, even tho they may have been stropped the day before and put away...I really believe the atmosphere has an effect on knives, bottom line, strop before you start, strop when you quit, and strop in your sleep! LOL