[mark yundt]

Hello Mark. Though there is a point to be made in not having your angel look like all the others there is also the consideration of what most are interested in seeing in a piece like this. I do alot of work for churches and there I find at least 300 plus opinions of what the parishoners want to see..at times it's a tall order.A piece can be done for the sake of uniqueness,,but at the expense of the novelty of it wearing off over time just looking at it.Sublime expressions can be had and still be unique.With that being stated I would have to agree on the face as stated above.I'm sure with the 20 % left the various parts will get refined as you said. The one point I would make is the direction of the gown and the folds that are appearing on it.Maybe I have a tendency to "swat at gnats" but the folds should be basically following the direction of the lines of the gown,,,that's how fabric pulls. I know this is an almost sniggling point and who really cares,but it's these things I notice because it's one of the details that I concentrate on in my work.It will also , in a subtle way, also lead your eye upwards without the attendant glitch caused by awkward folds and at the same time add a more fluid and natural flowing look to the piece.Wrinkles and folds go in the direction of the pull.I have a book devoted to this subject called by the grandiose title "Dynamic wrinkles and folds" of all things,,but as I said to me it adds a certain something to the work that might not necessarily get noticed visually ,, but makes an impression subliminally.

[Ashbys]

Mark ,
I like the general design, and I know you will have a really nice piece when your finished. But I have to agree with Mark and Bob.

My perspective , I think you set the brow line high. Most women , have a higher forehead. The line you used looks very much like the heavy brow of the mountian man. Although womans lines are close to the same as men, they are usually shallower in the defined lines. To high light that difference many women pluck thir eyebrows to add to the effect of reducing the brow line. I think if you blend it a bit more you will be happier with the look.

Then as with all faces, one change will lead to another. I assume your trying for a realism style with her. So I have only one more question.
The robe breaks and moves to her left, Is that the foot or the knee making the break? If it is the knee, you might want to look at your distance, I can't quite put my finger on what it is , but it seems a bit odd to me on the location. Of course , It may be nothing more than the photo, or my perception.

Ash

[Joy]

Mark, I love the flow of the gown. I see the layers of the gown more as overlays rather than drapes (as though she has a three layer gown). And the angle of the "knee" and the hint of a right foot works for me. It was the first thing that caught my eye and said WOW.

The second thing I noticed is that she seems to be smirking. Perhaps when you thin the nose and hollow the cheeks you could make her mouth either more neutral or more overt smile. I know she will be beautiful when you finish and everyone (me included) will want to copy her.

[mark yundt]

Joy ,, there is nothing wrong with the flow of the gown,,it's just fine,,the lines leading from her/his lower right leg towards the left hip.I am talking about the folds starting to occur over the right thigh that are perpendicular to those primary lines. Carved cloth is a really neat way to show what is underneath it,,without actually carving something ( a leg,,or thigh in this case) If you drape or pull a cloth across your own legs in this same direction,,starting from lower right and pull it up and across to about your left hip,,you'll see exactly what I'm talking about.You will still see the basic outline of your leg,,the main folds will follow the direction of the pulling action,,as Mark has here,,but the secondary folds will not go in perpendicular directions.Just look at a few photos of Middle eastern women as they wrap themselves with their cloths and you 'll see just what I'm suggesting will happen. He shouldn't change the main folds,,just the interesting little ones,,and if he's so inspired,,suggest a leg under there too,,I don't know how realistic this is supposed to be,,but in even in some flat plane styles I've seen these details pulled off quite well and to great effect and advantage,,as I ve said,,it adds something in a subtle way that can enhance the overall look.Just a suggestion,,,,,

[mark yundt]

Not to belabor a point (though I usually do LOL) here are some examples of what I was referring to.The only reason I find this stuff interesting is because I love carving cloth.You don't so much carve the cloth as you are carving what is underneath it,,and show what isn't really there.You can carve the most beautiful gown,,but handled incorrectly the body (or leg ) dissappears. The one pic is a clay model. As you can see on the left thigh the cloth is pulled tight,, I really carved the thigh ,but it's really cloth,,on the right thigh the cloth is much looser and bunched,,but the folds follow a path of tension.The drawing shows how cloth can pull over a knee (just as in the carving it will) shows multiple layers,,and yet everything flows in a direction.The funny thing is,,it's the folds that tell you what's supposed to be there,,a knee.As I said,, this is a small point,,there are other areas of greater concern which others are attending to,,but this was only my suggestion on a minor detail

[Joy]

Mark Yundt,
My BAD! I see what you are describing. I just didn't want Mark to change the "layered look" and obviously didn't read carefully enough about the drape.

[Ashbys]

Mark Y,
I really like that book! Could you tell me what book it is?

I often use web sites to really study clothing, there are a few which are simple exceptional for the robe style carving that your reffering to.

http://www.ladina.com/mother-and-child.asp

And if giving credit where it belongs, for a study aid , for just simply beautiful carvings this is an outstand site. If you really study the carvings you will see simple difference in each carving, from piece to piece as well as from carver to carver. It is a another good example of what your saying Mark.

[Anthony Filetti]

Ash,
I think the book he pictured is "Dynamic Wrinkles and Folds" by Burne Hogarth. ISBN # 0823015874.

The book is a good reference for this type of thing as it describes in detail each type of wrinkle and fold.

[Ashbys]

Thanks Tony,

I will see if I can find a copy , looks like a book that will help a lot.

Thanks

[jillsy]

Originally Posted by TUKLONITA

When carving, I carve what comes... not what others see.
It's a beautiful, unique, impression and looks nothing like the plastic angels one can buy at WalMart, by the hundreds.

What a beautiful thing to say! That really made me think.

Jillsy