[SAW III]

Hi,

My first queery is - Can i earn a descent income from wood carving or is it best kept to a hobby.

I realise this depends on allot of different variables but i'd just like an idea from those in the know.

[Kenny_S]

Short and sweet answer is YES!

Personally, I make some money carving as a hobby and selling. But it just keeps in wood and tools.

[mark yundt]

I can give another thumbs up. I've been doing it every day for the past 16+ yrs.as the sole breadwinner.Paid for colleges,,cars,,vacations,,most recently investment properties,,,tools,,you name it,,carving paid for it.

[Paul_Guraedy]

It is possible; but, it's not easy. Unless you have a "following", have developed a unique style of interest to collectors, or are simply fantastically talented be prepared to spend a lot of time carving things that will sell rather than the things you probably wanted to work on when you started into woodcarving. You should be prepared to do a lot of carvings that will sell for less than $50 and you need to be very fast carving these.

The last commissioned piece that I carved was one where I tracked my supplies and time. In the end I made $3.33 per hour; but, in all honesty I will say that it was a carving I was interested in doing so I made sure that I did not price myself out of the market. But, this is not too far fetched from what I hear from others and I would hate to use that figure to try and say I was making a living at carving.

[Lightningbolt]

From my perspective the answer is yes. I'd say that most of those who have managed to make a good living from carving have spent many years learning the skill, learning the trade, and working hard at repeatedly finding ways to "spin" new monies from carving such as workshops and/or writing, etc.

With that said, then I'd have to say that to make a good living as a carver you'd need to work it hard... go to a lot of shows, continously build relationships, and network with those who can help you down the road. Number two I would work it hard convincing others why they need to attend your workshops. Number three, I'd work it hard at becoming a "formidable" and recognized carver so you'll need to convince one of the carving magazine publishers why they should print your artcles, then of course you'd need to follow up with a steady stream of carving books. Yes, it's VERY possible to make it as a career carver and I've only presented one such path with only a few ideas but it all boils down to how badly that you want it.

Personally, I've made it as a successful carver mostly by finding ways to incorporate it into my career as an educator, teaching kids carving and woodwork in an experiential educational program is something that I spent many years developing and convincing leadership that I was "the man with the plan" . In addition I am also often called upon to carve all kinds of projects at our facility and I'm often sent "on the road" to carve projects at our other camps on the east coast It's sorta nice being put up at the Holiday Inn Express for a week or so while I'm carving another 12' totem pole, woodspirits, etc.

Over the years I've also built up a good "word of mouth" reputation mainly as a woodspirit walking stick carver and I've already maxed out on orders due for next Christmas. I'd have to say that there's about as many ways to make a living at carving as your own willingness is to work hard at finding just how you fit into the groove of things. Good luck and good question!

[mark yundt]

Well Paul,,with all due respect you are correct on two accounts,,it IS possible,,,and it's NOT easy.

If you are in this as a business to earn a living doesn't it sort of makes sense to carve things that will sell rather than just things you feel like carving,,whereas if it is a hobby ,,then just carve the things you personally like and sell off a few rather than just give them away? That to me is pretty much a given if you plan on eating let alone anything else.
If you're carving things for a following that seems to imply you are carving a particular type of item that people will collect ergo you have a "following"or "collectors",,an often used term but somewhat dubious at best. A steady (?) stream or group of people collecting your item.And if that item as you propose is selling for $50 or less you, by default,,have a very limited audience of limited means. You'll end up eating nothing but beans.And if you plan on selling to this "following",,,then where do you suppose that group comes from to be called your following or group of clientele? They,,and you,,have to have started from somewhere.Don't know too many who started carving and automatically had a following.That's part of growing a business.
Instead of carving 20 of these items a week to make a grand ,,wouldn't it make sense to carve one item in a week and sell it for at least the same amount,,make just one item ,,done really well,,and possibly sell it for more than just a grand?
I found that if you're pricing yourself out of a market,,,you're probably in the wrong market to start with. Sure ,,there is a market for most anything,,but some things are simply more profitable to do than what everyone else is doing or what you personally feel like carving. That's why I don't carve Santas for example.From what I have seen and heard there is no money in them.I like them,,,would like to do some but rather than carve a santa a day ,,for 50 to 100 bucks,,,I'd rather carve some mouldings and make 5 grand. Takes no more effort,,probably less,,and the profit is greater.Novelty items are fun,,but certain carvings make money.That's what you have to learn to carve and find that market.
Learning to and actually carving fast is a natural result of doing it on a regular basis. Being able to carve fast is really an indication that you know what you are carving as well as where you are going in a block of wood. That too comes with time and experience.
Maybe I'm the oddball,,but since the first show I did as a part timer I quickly realized that if I wanted to really do something with this,, even when I did it as a hobby,,,commissions were the only way to go. After all this time,,THAT,, for me ,,was the watershed event.I will never carve a piece and hope to sell it off,,pawn it off,,or give it away at some silly price.Depending what you do,,you may very well eat that piece ,,or have it rot in front of you waiting to sell it somehow.In 16 yrs of doing this,,I have never done a show,,given a class,,wrote a story,,given lectures,,sold patterns,tools ,,don't have a storefront,,no walk in customers,,nothing in galleries or shops,,or any of the other things some do to make ends meet.

I only carve.That's it.

I simply love carving. I don't really care what someone throws at me and asks me to carve. I love the challenge,,get to do things I never would have dreamed of doing,,and wouldn't have done if it were not for a commission and the challenge of doing it. Do I then have to worry about selling it? NO,,its already sold if someone asked me to do it ,,they want it,,and are willing to pay for it. It's a done deal. If I ever would loose money on a commission,,,something is drastically wrong. Given the parameters,,I can usually pinpoint where an error was made. Sure ,,there are times where I can do very well,,other times not to the same level but still make money. But if you have a clue as to what you are doing ,,you know this going in based on a number of factors.
Plenty of people have incredible talent. Some carve the most unique items.Many people OHH and AHH over them. Are they making a living selling them? Having a unique item can,,but does not necessarily indicate a profitable business plan,though it can and at times works. Making a living at this can be tough enough just finding the clients that are willing and able to pay you adequately for your time and talents. Personally,,I could not see myself boxing myself in further with only a unique item or two. If I had followed most peoples advice and thoughts about carving,,selling,,and making a living,,I would have lasted 3 months to maybe 6 months tops.I would still have a full time job,,and sell the occasional piece as I once did through the usual venues,,dreaming of what it would be like to be a full time carver.

[Paul_Guraedy]

Mark, I do not think that there is anything oddball about you or your statement on woodcarving for a living. I agree with your evaluation of woodcarving for profit. I think it is wonderful that there are woodcarvers who are able to make their living in this field. It is better for all of us. Whether the main income is from carving, teaching, or offering supplies. There is nothing wrong with carving the items that sell. But most of us are unable to balance the desire to create what we want with the need to put food on the table.

I have started carving Christmas ornaments for sale. The proceeds go to a charitable organization for orphans in Africa that is run by former Peace Corps Volunteers. I love the cause, I love assisting in this small way with their finances. But, I have to admit that while I am carving these ornaments, I am thinking about, yes even wishing, that I had them done so that I could return to the things I am really interested in doing. I do carve the occasional commissioned piece and even in the example I used I was happy with the $3.33 per hour. It was my choice to spend the time putting in the details I wanted. The piece was being purchased as a gift. All the guy wanted was a nice original gift for his office manager. I was the one not satisfied with turning out a really profitable carving.

I think all of the messages are basically saying the same thing. Go for your dream; but, be realistic and aware of what it takes to succeed financially as a woodcarver.

[Mitchell]

IMO, you have to be GOOD at carving...it's not something that a beginner can start off doing as a means of making a living. And you have to specialize - make a name for yourself so that you can do as Mark says - carve something special and sell it high.

[mark yundt]

Thanks Paul,,
I do really believe that the desire to balance carving what you want and still try to put food on the table is a balance weighted heavily in favor of failing. It is a nice dream ,,but the reality I fear is it's a daydream. Fortunately for me I really do want to carve everything. I haven't yet had a commission that I wasn't interested in doing. I don't care if its a carousel horse,,mouldings,,brackets,,statues,,you name it,,I'll carve it.That in itself leaves me more options for work.

I'm sure all carvers love the pieces they chose to carve for obvious reasons. By extrapolation they dream of the life devoted to making a living doing that work 'cause it is so much fun and relaxing for them.Imagine an idyllic setting ,,wood chips on the floor,,music in the background,,carving away the entire day.Ahhh what a life,,wouldn't it be great? Hey,,I could sell more pieces than I have at the local fair,,look what I sold last year and imagine what I could do if I was full time! I could get some pieces in some galleries. And being a carver who hasn't been asked " Could you carve a ________ for me,,,I'll pay you".. WOW,, I got a commission,,paid a deposit up front too! What if I did this full time and advertised a bit and had the time then to do even more shows.And people are asking me if I could show them how to do this ,,,I could start teaching too! Boy the possibilities are endless.

Ahh,,, the life of a carver,,,if it were only that way. Many I have found will tell you they carve full time. They don't make a living at it,,they simply carve in all their free time.A few pieces get sold throughout the year,,supplementing other sources of income. They carve only what they like to carve or happen to be good at just as I did when it was simply a hobby. All those years ago I was able to pick up 10-15 grand a year selling birds. Not enough to live on even then,,but nice pocket change for a hobby.Did I consider doing it full time. Nope.People encouraged me. Glad I didn't do it. It would have meant a slow agonizing death. I can't endorse specializing in any one carving.

[lorax]

Mark
First, I want to thank you for sharing your experiences with us as a full time woodcarver. I'm sure there are many carvers who dream of it, but that's what it will always be. I hope to not be in that catagory, and I have been gearing up to go full time in about 5 years (that's when I retire from the military). I fall into the catagory of those who want to "specialize" in the subject I am most interested in, religious items. So that was a great wake-up for me, because I have done several commisions that were non-religious and don't enjoy it as much, but a comission is a comission. I was looking into mass production techniques, but without a guarantee of selling the items it seemed a little risky, so your posts cleared up some unknowns for me- a hearty thank you!

Next, I wonder if you could expand on some of the administrative sides that we dont take into consideration, I'm sure there is overhead that would suprise me if I tried to go into business tomorrow. This may need to be its thread. But while perusing your exceptional website, first I thought of web design an upkeep, that is clearly a professional looking site and makes me want to close mine altogether .
Next thing I noticed was how well the photographs of your work were executed. I think I read you are a photography buff, but for me that would require outsourcing to get that level of quality.
How much energy/time does advertising take, and are there methods that are a waste of time?
Did your pricing go up as your quality of work increased?
And, are you a one man show, or did you eventually hire on other people to keep up production?
I will purposely not ask about business licenses, taxes and the like, but what about liabilty insurance or bonding? are those neccesary?
I appreciate the information that you are willing to share, it is a valuable resource that would otherwise be learned the hard way.