Hello All! Newbie Question - stop cuts

[ejnelson]

Hello all! I have recently begun my foray into the world of carving and am working on figuring out what I need. Right now I have a Flexcut #5 gouge and a bench knife I made. At this time I'm mostly interested in relief carving, but will likely venture into other styles.

My question is regarding stop cuts. I did a search and I see that a lot of people use them, but I was reading something on the net that said stop cuts should not be used and, if I remember correctly, a veiner or v-gouge was recommended for outlining the carving. Any suggestions, recomendations, or comments to that statement?

Thanks!

[TommyPhillips]

Welcome aboard, ej.

I am by no means an expert, being fairly new at this myself, but the first three things I learned about carving were:

1. Learn to sharpen your tools
2. Draw the pattern on the blank, and keep drawing as you carve it away.
3. Learn to use stop cuts.

Some of the more experienced members may have a different approach, and I suppose there might be some techniques or styles of carving that don't use stop cuts. I would love to hear about those.

-Tommy Phillips

[jillsy]

I wouldn't dare carve without using stop cuts!!

[ejnelson]

Well that's what I thought, but I came across a web site called Nora Hall Carving Designs and one of here tips is "Under no circumstance should you start out with stopcuts on a flat surface. A stopcut doesn't remove wood, it forces the tool into the wood and breaks and tears it up causing a lot of trouble once you define the outline." Here is the Link. Her web site has her coming off as a very respectable carver.

[BobD]

Every carver you talk to has a different opinion on it. Lora S. Irish, who stops in here once and a while, has the opposite opinion. She uses stop cuts all the time.

Chris Pye also uses them (in the last issue, he demonstrated how to make one with a chisel or gouge).

Other people use routers to define levels...and that naturally creates a stop cut.


It all just depends on what works for you. Personally, I outline with whatever tool I have in my hand, a knife, gouge, chisel, router...whatever is handy!

Bob Duncan
Technical Editor

[ejnelson]

Thanks! I figured it was a matter of personal opinion. Hopefully I'll have something to post soon!

[Mitchell]

It depends on what I'm carving and what tools I'm using (have handy).

If you are using a knife only, well, you gotta use stop cuts.

For many of my carvings, I do start with a veiner or v-tool to outline where I want details to go. I have stated before I use the following steps: Rough-out, Block out, and Detail.

I rough out the basic shape with a knife or large, relatively flat gouge (#3 or #5 for example).

Second, I will use a veiner or v-tool to mark and divide the areas that I want to use for details - what I refer to as blocking out. This is what Nora is most likely trying to explain also.

Then I follow up with adding details - by using stop cuts and what I can best describe as "making triangles".

[susieq]

Hello EJ,
When you have carved for a while you will do what works for you. Until then you have to try things to find out what works for you. I mostly power carve now but carved with gouges and chisels for years. My personal experience with stop cut vs veiner or v gouge was this, when I tried to outline my work with a veiner instead of a stop cut, the outline of the work either got larger or smaller as I worked. It is really hard to hold a veiner perfectly enough to make a straight up and down side to the work as you go. You tend to either angle in or out with the tool....at least I did. I much prefered stop cuts.

But try it both ways. You may find that a veiner works better for you than the stop cut. Good luck to you in your quest for "what works for you".....

[mark yundt]

USE STOP CUTS,REGULARLY AND OFTEN!!!! you basically can't carve without them in my "book". To not use them is just silly. Just finished a job where conservatively several thousand were probably used, a "V" tool would have been useless and in many ,,,MANY cases can not and will not produce as effective a cut ,line,or stop as a chisel will. Personally I very seldom ,,IF EVER use a V tool to establish stop cuts. They don't work as effectively,,harder to control,,are limited in scope,,,what's the point really?
It's not like you're forcing a dull screwdriver into the wood,,,it's a chisel for heavens sake,,and as such should be fairly sharp which in all likelyhood will sever the fibers.How would a stop cut ,done with a V tool be handled that's deeper than the tool itself? TERRIBLY!. Forget what you read,go ahead and use all the stop cuts you want.It's a great way to carve,,been done for centuries as a matter of fact with terrific outcomes by the way.
I find it incredible she wrote that statement,,,she should know better.

[doris]

i want to add 2 things which might be helpful, since you say you just begin... i did try both, but now only make stopcuts with chisels or gouges, for the reason mentioned here... stopcuts done properly are working fine.

yes, stopcuts with chisels, or gouges, can potentially tear the wood. BUT only when the tool is dull AND you drive it with one smashing stroke violantly as deep as you can ... why should a considerate carver do that ? for one, you cant really tell how deep the tool drives, maybe too deep ? you dont want risk that to not ruin your carving. so first tip

do stop cuts lightly first, remove wood, and thus gain just a little depth, and then move deeper with the next stop cut followed by a removal cut, step by step until you reached desired depth.

next is, that i still sometimes cant do stopcut perfectly vertical though with practise is getting better. when the cut slants inwards, it might cut in an area where you not want it so second tip

make the stop cuts just a llitte next to the line, not directly onto it. work your way down to the desired depth, and then with a shaving cut cut the wall you created back to the line and perpendicular to the bottom. much easier this way for me, much more control, and less chance to make big mistake... hope this helps