Artist Talent vs Carving Tool technique

[Thor]

I think that every "artist" or "craftsman" is working towards his/her own masterpiece....the best they can achieve. As the skills develope over time (it comes easier for some than others), each of them strives towards their own personal best. As the skill level grows, so does the ability to express ones meaning in that medium.
I don't think the definition is nearly as important as the act of doing. Once we're done with it, it takes on a life of its own anyway.
Ask yourself this. Was Vincent Van Gogh's first painting art? How about Michelangelo's first stone carving? They had to be a beginner at some stage.
Thor

[mdallensr]

I've been carving with the same group for 9 years. We've had a few folks come and go, but I've seen several carvers start in our class exactly as I did, with the same "compulsory" carvings that teach the different cuts and the safe way to make them. I've watched those carvers progress at different rates, based on how much time they put into carving. But they've all progressed, and they all look back to their first carvings, as we watch the "newbie" in the class starting out, and we all know we've come a long way.

We have some carvers with obvious artistic talent, but most of us have little, if any. I'm now convinced that with proper instruction, most folks can learn to carve and do good work. They may not do original designs, but how original can a black-capped chickadee be? After I've seen a few dozen carvings of the same bird, what I'm looking for, as a carver, is the execution of the carving, not the originality of the turned head.

I really envy carvers with artistic talent. We have many on this board, and they are a great source of ideas for those of us lacking that aptitude. While we promote original designs, and we've had some great discussions of that issue, consider how many requests we see on this board for patterns. Lots of carvers are looking for patterns, lots of carvers write carving books with patterns, Susan makes a business of patterns (wonderful patterns), so there must be a host of us in carving land that need ideas, examples and complete dimensioned drawings. I think that's fine.

We don't all need to be artists. I can't sing a lick either. It's funny how no one ever nags me to be an artist, but some folks won't accept non-singers. We had a church lady threaten to drag me kicking and screaming into the choir, just to prove to me I could sing, but that's another story..... I'd rather carve, and see can't carve a lick. How did this message start, anyway?

[Tom-H]

OK! MD, I started it. But I never thought it would get so deep and thought provoking. I was just looking for some reassurance that if I kept on "practicing" with the knife and palm chisel, that I could overcome a lack of artistic ability, and be able to produce nice carvings. And, yes, you and others have provided me some hope. This past summer I started trying to carve with the knife and palm chisel. I initially set a goal of 100 faces. Well I have almost completed these and I can see marked improvement. But I still have a long way to go. New goal is needed. I just wish I had started learning to carve when I was younger. My learning curve may collide with my age curve. Anyway, thanks to all who have supplied so much insight. TOM H

[JIM QUILICI]

I thinks an artist is not what someone says of himself , but what others say about them. I whatched american Idol, there were a lot of people who said they could sing and got very upset when others said that they could not sing. carvers are no different. some carvers carve in the shower and others carve on stage. wheather we carve in the shower or on stage we are supose to have fun . that is what carving is supose to do for you.
Just old Jim

[mik1947]

I'm past the point of asking whether it's art or craft - I ask if I like it or not. If I do, then it's okay. If I don't, then I ask what do I need to do to make it more "likable"!

HiHo - I'm willing to donate, but I don't know if there's enough left to do you any good!!!!

Mike

[dutchmanmk3]

Originally Posted by Tom H

OK! MD, I started it. But I never thought it would get so deep and thought provoking. I was just looking for some reassurance that if I kept on "practicing" with the knife and palm chisel, that I could overcome a lack of artistic ability, and be able to produce nice carvings. And, yes, you and others have provided me some hope. This past summer I started trying to carve with the knife and palm chisel. I initially set a goal of 100 faces. Well I have almost completed these and I can see marked improvement. But I still have a long way to go. New goal is needed. I just wish I had started learning to carve when I was younger. My learning curve may collide with my age curve. Anyway, thanks to all who have supplied so much insight. TOM H

I kinda like Paul's answer the best. Years ago I got a good chuckle out of the old Truman Copote Line "That's not writing, It's typing" When I asked one of my instructors to define writing his simple reply was that any time you could put ink on paper, and evoke a human emotion, That WAS Writing !

15 years ago I might have said technique, and skill. 10 years ago I might have been somewhat ambiguous, but in the last few years I am both dazzled, and amazed at where the fire and magic presents itself ??? Wink It has been said time and time again, that no school in the world could ever teach natural ability, and perhaps that's a given ? What I have witnessed or learned over time is that it is entirely possible to squash it like a bug ! I had technique pounded into me by my master, and I swore that in my time I would fan the flame of imagination rather than stiffle it with pedantic proficiency.

Never let anyone sell you a bill of goods. Never stop believing in yourself, and if you haven't started yet there's no time like the present ! The foundation of those skills is never the less a tool, and how you weild it will define the flavor of your own creation.

[Goody]

Ask me about art 20 years ago and my answer was I can't draw a good stick figure. Ask me today and I still can't draw a stick figure. I consider my self a technical artist. Let me explain! Most art forms are positive, you add lead to paper to draw, you add paint to canvas to paint, You build up clay to sculp. Now you take carving and its subtractive, you take part of the original away to get to the art piece. No other form of art was easy for me until I carved. It made sense to me. The boss hands me A chunk of steel and I go over to the milling machine or the lathe and I remove material until I have the part thats needed. Believe me removing wood is easier than removing metal (even though I enjoy both). My wife can look at something and draw it to look 3d, I can look at something 2d, and produce it 3d. So I tell my wife my ideas for patterns and she draws them, I carve them then give them back to her to paint. Good woman I think Ill keep her. Acutually when you mix our two talents we can produce some art. So, whos the artist???
Harold & Anna
Goody & Mrs. Goody

[Ron Davidson]

I don't consider myself an artist. I think I am someone that like the feel of wood and can take a picture out of my mind and make the wood sometimes resemble the picture if you know what I mean. I will never have the talent of the great detail that I have seen others do on this forum. It's just not possible . I consider my carvings as a craft of my own doing and wouldn't change for anything I just try and improve with each one. But I will always look back and when I feel one in my hand i will know I created it good or bad. Well that is my two cents worth!
Ron

[Thomp]

Lots of great answers and theorys...

my 2 cents worth,
being raised by 2 polecats that came through the depression in the piney wood hills of alabama. the lessons of more with less, appreicate what you got, and share the extra with less fortunate, is all instilled in us 6 as youngans,

My grand paw could carve out a monkey head out of a peach tree limb, while you waited 'in nothing flat' my uncles could do the same, but they never considered themselves artists,
in my few years around them all i ever got was cut when i carved, i dont get cut as much anymore, and i cant carve a monkey head while you wait, but its still a goal... and im definately an artist

my viewpoint
To be a artist,
1. Art Appreication
2. the drive to create,

the art skill is learned behavior, something that comes with practice.
simply the more you practice the better you will get.
No matter the medium
and to keep from practicing the same mistakes you get others openions.
trade methods and learn.

for some tools are an insentive, some have all the tools needed with a pocket knife.,but ive turned into a tool collector, lately myself

Art is in the eye of the beholder, Rimbrants paintings are great works of art, theres not enough words to discribe the beauty and techinical apptitude it took to do his work, but if you cought him alone and asked him he probobally wouldnt have professed he was an artist. more likely he would have said he just had skills. or was good with a brush.

Good thread keep it going....

[Hi_Ho_Sliver]

Hey Thomp, I was born in Alabama and my Dads side of the family are still in the bushes there somewhere! But all I ever saw them do as they sat around telling stories was make little pieces of cedar out of big pieces! lol, on the lawn, on the rug, anywhere ha ha.