Artist Talent vs Carving Tool technique

[Tom-H]

I cannot help but notice that so many good carvers are also good artists. It is obvious that if one has both artistic talent and good tool technique; their carvings should be very good. But, can one overcome a lack of artistic abilities by learning good tool techniques, and still produce good carvings? TOM H

[dutchmanmk3]

You can become proficient in a trade without talent, but try not to confuse the gifts and abilities of others with Magic, and Potential of your own Creative Geniuse. Take a closer look at your own gifts, and explore the possibilities of expressing even a small piece of yourself. You can Admire the skills of others, but faith in yourself just might make the greater difference ?

[Paul_Guraedy]

Where does craft end and art begin? Or is it where does art end and craft begin?

I believe that the two are so intertwined that they cannot be clearly delineated. Certainly simply following someone else's pattern to the extent that there is little originality must be craft. No matter how good the technique and tool mastery might be.

Somewhere along the line of taking a pattern and putting in changes of your own is where art starts. Designing your own pieces has to be art. Now in my case there is a question as to how good that art might be; but, degree of quality does not make art.

I believe that good art comes when the Woodcarver has mastered the use of tools to the point that design takes advantage of this ability. When painting is of a quality that light and shadow emphasize the drama of a carving. When the observer laughs, crys, admires, or just seems drawn to want to touch a piece of wood that has been altered by the carver.

I have seen very little on this board that could not be described as art. Perhaps woodcarvers are forced, by the manner in which we create our pieces and by the medium we have chosen, to change patterns and put a little of our own art in each carving. After all removing wood with a gouge or knife is not entirely predictable and canvas does not normally have knots and weird grain twists jumping out and saying "surprise!"

There are a lot of good carvers on this list that are contributing to making the rest of us better woodcarvers and better artists.

[Kenny_S]

Well said Paul! AMEN

[squbrigg]

You folks are raising some very interesting questions. Questions I certainly can't answer competently. I can give an opinion, but how much value does that opinion hold?

I have wondered about this debate/question for many years....what defines an art and an artist? How does a person know when they cross the line from a hobby craftsperson to an artist, or do they? I should ask my daughter, she's the one who went to college and studied art. Smile How do they (the professional art community) define an artist.

If you ask an art professor, an art critic, a government arts and culture administrator, or an art gallery owner, you would probably get entirely different answers, and all claiming to be the correct and only acceptable ones.

Is it a self imposed label? "I am an artist!" Most of those that I have heard rattle that off are the ones that, ie: roll in paint on a sheet on the floor and call it an inspired piece of art! But the ones I consider true artists, are many of the folks on this board who create works that come from the heart. Does an artist first have to become a skilled artisan ....I believe so! There has to be a balance of technical skill and artistic ability to be an artist.

I have had discussions like this with ship modellers....is that an art of a craft? There are some magnificant ship modellers in the world, that make my efforts seem very primative by comparisome. I keep trying to improve, but does that make me an artist or a craftsman or a hobbiest. I believe Paul has touched on the heart of it.....when what you have created, can generate a response of emotion, perhaps that is the key.

Create......the ability to create an idea, to express a passion and make it appear out of a piece of wood, and have the product generate a similar response in another person. For us ...... perhaps that is what defines an artist, in our chosen medium, wood.

Ahhh...too deep for me! I'll just sharpen my knife and go back to the shop! I'm happy there.

Bob

[whitecree]

I think Squbrigg has come close in that art and ability with tools sort of chase each other. The artist learns how to use his tools, the tools an artist chooses get used to express the artist.

If that makes any sense...Question

I think first you have to try to define what art is, and I'm sure there are as many opinions as there are people in the world. What is art to me is just so much crud to someone else.

However.

My oldest son has a degree in fine art, and is a talented artist in his own right. I asked him once what he thought art is.

"Art is something that makes us see, or hear, or feel or somehow sense something different about the subject being viewed."

I thought about that for some time (I asked this question years ago) and I think he may be right, or at least close.

So how does this relate to talent versus tools?

Everyone has some artistic talent. And I don't say that just to make you feel better. Look at a kindergarten class. Look at all that raw talent in all those scribbles and blobby play-dough sculpture. If you take the time, and really try, you can see the elephant, or cat, or tree, or fire engine the child is trying to show you.

Tools are only the means of the artist, the way the artist has of expressing him(her)self. Better tools won't always mean better expressions, but may help a small talent express itself more easily.

My 2 cents for the day.Cool

[Hi_Ho_Sliver]

I have always heard and adhere to the cliche that art is 10 percent inspiration and 90 percent perspiration.....I think it boils down to having enough interest in something to jump in and learn it! How many people say, "Oh I wish I could do that!" but won't try it....most things can be learned if you want to bad enough...I am about to embark on being a brain surgeon, but can't find any donors? Bouncing S

[wade clark]

Here's a gross over-simplification:
An artist is someone who does art full time for a living. There are good artists and bad artists. Some of both starve out and find something else to do for a living.
One of my Sons changed his major from archetecture to Photography in college. I flipped and said, "Do you know what they call college graduates with a degree in photography? BAG BOYS!!!" Now he's a professional fashion photographer in NYC making great money. His work has been a two-page center in Vogue, Bizzaar, Marie Claire, Elle, and several others. I'd like to think my little words of inspiration drove him to success! At least they drove him to show the old man he was wrong! Ha! He still says he loves me over the phone...go figure!
Wade

[GILLY]

This is a question with many opinions and answers. I don't call myself an artist, and I don't call my pieces art, but many people who see my work, paintings, drawings and such call me an artist.

A fellow I once bow hunted with said, "many of us have gifts and shooting a bow comes natural, others have to work really hard at it" This came from a archery competition I was in, using a sinew backed bow I made and did quite well, while one other man in our group had been shooting bows for 35+ years, he had to work at it and was very inconsistant with his arrow placement, me, I was born with a gift. I was able to make a cree flatbow, back it with elk sinew and shoot at a competion and do better than old archers using high end longbows. I find carving and painting and drawing easy. I get an idea in my head and put it on paper, wood or canvas. Tool control and technique are things I learned from a very young age and over the years became better and better at having my chisel do want I want, the way I want.

I still would not call myself an artist, rather a fella born with gifts to make things by hand.

My 2 cents

[Hi_Ho_Sliver]

It doesn't have anything to do with whether you are performing art work full time or not, I had heard once that the difference was whether or not you had ever sold anything, well I think we will all agree that has nothing to do with it either......maybe its all in the mind of the bee holder......but a bee holder gets stung ?? Talking