Casting or Carved

[Boydman]

Hey Goody,

You know that I cast everything now.......I got so far behind in making custom originals....I quit doing artwork for 10 years....wasn't fun anymore. Took me 3 hard years of R&D to come up with this process for casting and I am damn proud of it............I took your poll and I said that I would always want an original.....with only $50 difference but, my original ivory buckles were selling for $250 and cast repro's are now $40. Also, the casting has allowed me to spend alot more time on my originals....so, the artwork is alot better now too.

I make products for gift shops at wholesale prices....one gift shop down in Skagway ordered 180 buckles couple years ago....no way I could keep up with orders if I did not learn how to cast!..............I could go on about our economy and such....but, I have made my point about the business. Lastly, I love working with the diamond willow and certainly hope that we all do well with our chosen paths....all the best!

[Goody]

Originally Posted by woodshed

Not wanting to offend, Goody, But do you distinguish between the original and the duplicated or you sell both as hand carved? I think your goal is probably 1) to carve more so that 2) you can sell more. And I am OK with that. I think if it is the artist doing the casting and selling his work, then I am OK with that, too. He is just trying to increase the revenue flow. I don't cast anything, but then I am not trying to make a living at this, either. The line is probably crossed when you lose control of the marketing side, allowing your work to show up in wally world for example. Everyone will have a different take on this, I am sure. Again, Goody, no offense meant.

Oh none taken! I wouldn't have started this thread if I was not willing to take whats posted. Just Thought I fire a warning shot over the bow for the guys that do sell their carvings. Casting has been become so easy its virtually a basement hobby now. www.smooth-on.com I researched it as I am also a turner and wanted to cast some fishing flys in acrylic resin. With the economy the way it is castings will affect us guys that take pride in selling our carvings. One of the things that happened this year was twice once at a show and once in the storefront I was asked if I sell castings of my carvings. I do sell my carvings, I do use a roughout machine to take all but the detail out of a carving but every santa still comes out different. Getting older in America isn't what it used to be. I am fighting for health insurance even though I qualified for disability they are still making me wait for Medicare. So the Santa carving supplements the disability check.
We also enjoy our customers but the economy is even changing that. I can tell by the way someone holds a carving if they like it or not. Normally if they are holding it like a little child in both hands its sold. Now I still see customers liking a carving but when they see the price on the bottom and set down you know you have lost that sale. You cant get upset when it happens it could be a matter of something they want instead of something they need. Its Changed still Changing and going to change even more.

[Donsexton]

Now this has been more than a few years ago, this lady at a gilded art show looked at a hound dog I carved it was like ¼ life size in mahogany glued up. She ask me if I could carve her dachshund life size in the same wood as the hound but in one piece. I told her I could but the single block or Honduran Mahogany would be expensive she said no problem just tell her how much when I could. The block of wood costs $350 in 1980 I figured $800 was a fair price. She told me that I was trying to rip her off take advantage I told her to go away then no deal.
A week or so later I was back in my shop working on my day job repairing antiques. I was told that a lady was up front asking to talk to me it was her with an 8” casting of a dachshund. She told me that she bought this beautiful hand carved dog at the Hallmark store for $35. She wanted to scold me for trying to over charge her I showed her that the thing was a casting by noting the small air bubbles on the bottom. She left my shop believing that thing was carved wood and she had gotten a great deal for $35 at the mall.
Here is the thing, that was good enough for her she thinks she has an heirloom. I don’t even like that stuff carved from Asia it has that look just not my style. If you like gaudy ornately carved dragons with sea shells inlayed and depictions of village life with water buffalo and tropical birds good for you buy a whole truck load of it for what one of mine would cost.
I make my art for me and if others like it great if not I can tell them that the flea market has a guy that sells great velvet paintings of Elvis and dogs playing poker for like $20. The Asian food store has great hand carved jade figures of Buda and Samurai guys for like $20. For just a little cash one could fix their living room to look just like the waiting area at the Chinese restaurant.

[Dileon]

DiLeon, I'm going to have to disagree with you. Sure,
Yea I saw that you posted above me....I knew it was coming.....smile
....
Lynn,... I own lots of junk art just because I want it, including my own left over junk art...., I own some real art that over the years have value...., and I got about 20 bronzes statues that I bought in Thailand super cheap...that are about 100 time worth more then I paid for. I understand your point, but honestly I do not see repo plastic in the dollar store of your work. An Lynn who knows,... that your last carving, may be worth a million dollars in the future, who knows what the future brings? Yes, yes,.... I own a lot of plastic and plaster art but I do not pay more then the worth of mold, and resin.

[telecarver]

Originally Posted by Goody

Ken I'm Surprised! you know how I feel about off shore castings coming here. You are a carver! Have castings affected your sales yet?
I would start another business before I would have my santas cast the four times I have been approached I have turned the casting companies down.

I used to fear castings and CNC carvings competing with my sales. My experience has been that the increased availability of castings and CNC carvings has increased the public awareness of carving and helped my business. There are people in a certain price range that will not pay for or can't afford a hand carved piece. So be it. They will purchase the CNC or cast piece anyway. There are plenty of people who appreciate hand carved pieces and will pay for them. It just depends on the selling venue and the presentation. An example is that photography hasn't killed painting.

[Sharon of the Dell]

Originally Posted by kdispoto

I'd suppose you could try all three - and see where it takes you.
For me - I'd do what ever it took to keep food on the table. After that I'd carve for pleasure

Amen Ken! Whatever it takes to survive! I would only make castings of my own stuff. And would not feel bad or like I cheapened myself a bit! As long as I am doing the casting. And who knows, maybe get where I could actually hire someone to help me, well that would be the icing on the cake to help someone else to survive!
But the question is, would you prefer to buy hand carved over casting?
But of course I would rather buy something hand carved from an individual.
Could I afford it? Right now, heck no! But I'm the kind of person, if I love what you made and I have the extra bucks on hand, I'll buy it and maybe give you more if I think you are under selling yourself!
If the casting was of a wood carving and you had it cast out of cement for yard art, I would buy that over wood, if it was an inside carving, to go in my yard because I love yard art!

[Lazy Carver]

2 ME, its alwasy been about originality, and MADE IN THE USA! I believe originality lends itself to more a personal accomplishment than one of financial... The idea that 'Someone out there is holding an original goody' is saying something more than 'Do you know, the original goody is worth thousands...' The uniqueness behind an item gives it reverence before its worth. Some buy gold coins for security, and for vanity...., I buy gold coins not just because of the gold, but for the quality and craftsmenship behind them, they tell a story behind their workmanship and their journey...., or i would have had pounds of gold, instead of a few coins.... 'Do you get what i'm sayin'?' I value my penny, nickel and dime colection more... Ask a securities mogul what's behind a troy ounce indian head buffalo $50 piece, and he will tell you..... 'emmmm.... GOLD?!...Who cares?'.... He wont tell you about James Earl Fraser, and about the last frontier in the lower 48, about how Fraser was inspired by the Cheyenne, the blackfoot, the shashone, the Kiowa. How the design for it should have comeout 2 years prior to 1913 on the nickel, and the replacement nickel for that year should have been washington, instead of another liberty, but later settling on the Native American, to show respect to a revered culture by the educated few... I WILL!..... I collect not for narcissistic purpose, but to pass on a legacy to a world that has been long since gone from the landscape of an America, where true chivalry and true spirituality reigned, to make the fabric of 'American Exceptionalism' my hope, reverberate throughout time. Even after i'm long gone... That 'American Exceptionalism' that makes us that unique beacon of hope to those less fortunate than us, to become all that they can ever master of their own doing... That..,.. 'Shining city upon a hill'.... Anyways.... Goody is right.... He is right! If it comes from the deepest corner of your heart, the money will follow... But you know you will have given quality and a part of 'American Exceptionalism', instead of quantity, or 'just another number'.... It's really about giving someone a part of your self... Originality convey's the spirit side of you... You speak through the sculpture... You convey your actions.... But, it's even deeper than that!

[LBlake]

For something like a santa, no doubt, the original carving. But I have known people who cast some larger pieces in bronze - only a few castings, if even more than 1 - and I definitely see the point in that, and would probably prefer the bronze. But I don't think that's what you're talking about here. Reproductions do have their place (like the giclee example mentioned), but I really think it depends on the type of item being reproduced. And I do think the benefit to the field is important to consider.
That third category, though - commercial castings - rates WAY lower in my mind (and I worry about people stealing designs for that purpose). Maybe there's a legitimate place for that in the novelties or chocolates world. (I made chocolate wedding favors from a wood carving I did - but I don't hold much value in that original carving in that case - hmm...)

[Robson Valley]

Suppose you used a CAD program for the design and a CNC machine for the carving. There is no "original."
I know a digital artist who never wets a brush. I have 4 of his paintings, wish I could afford more.

[Goody]

I do, I can, I don't. I have a right heavy duty cnc machine and $3,000 worth of software. I bought the machine a few years ago and decided to put new drivers to run windows based software instead of dos. I had a lot of health problems and it got put on the back burner and I lost interest in it. Health issues forced me to disability and right now I am selling every carving and turning I can to pay Cobra. Once your granted disability you have to wait 2 years for medicare. 6 more months to go. Right now I am trying to make the decision to get it running or sell it off.
Goody